Does God love me? Can I trust Him?

if you really want to talk about this seriously, we have to look at the question of whether being forgiven creates love and thankfulness (as christians profess), or creates a lack of responsibility leading to worse actions (as Nietzsche would profess.) Before anybody says that it must be the latter because christians are bad people too, we have to notice that some popular forms of christianity do not in fact offer forgiveness on a long term basis, but rather only offer more responsibility, and that is because some christian sects do not offer salvation for free but rather, your personal christian "race for the prize" can be lost or won by actions after conversion.

ALSO, most christian sects believe that you will in fact suffer for your sin,(even those that say god will not count your sin against you), so i don't think there is validity in saying cause and effect are lost, unless you are talking about Karma or Heaven only, and not cause and effect in this world. It isn't within normal sensibility to say, "God protect me from the physical consequence of my sin", although that prayer is being prayed all around the world right now as we speak, because not everyone is sensible.
 
Neverfly said:
This statement is a self fulfilling prophecy. Things that do not exist cannot be measured because they do not exist to be measured. Everything that exists has potential to be measured.
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OK, count the number of Christians in the world. count the number of Muslims. count the number of Jews. count the number of Budhists. Count the number of atheists. There ya go. Count the number of people who have experienced the Holy Spirit. Count the number of NDE experoences. All of these things are quantifiable.
 
Mazulu said:
OK, count the number of Christians in the world. count the number of Muslims. count the number of Jews. count the number of Budhists. Count the number of atheists. There ya go. Count the number of people who have experienced the Holy Spirit. Count the number of NDE experoences. All of these things are quantifiable.
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Interesting method- considering you included counting all of the people that disagree about spirituality.

I cannot count the people who have experienced the Holy Spirit- I can only count those that claim to have experienced the Holy Spirit. Same as I can count up all the people who claim to have seen Fairies and leprechauns (A famous one is Sylvia Browne) and Loch Ness Monster and Bigfoot and Richard Hoagland saw a tiny white bunny on mars. I kid you not. He swears that the rover ran it over several times to kill it.

So, yes- claims are quantifiable. Evidence of those claims... Not so quantifiable.
 
Neverfly said:
Yes to all. All are physical and real chemicals and measurable interactions.
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Very ambiguous reply,
you can't quantify the invisible properties in your life.
Some existences can't be quantified, but they exist anyway.
 
Saint said:
Very ambiguous reply,
you can't quantify the invisible properties in your life.
Some existences can't be quantified, but they exist anyway.
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Posts on a net forum are often necessarily short. Want details?
I can quantify the Human Brain and what happens to it, how it responds to stimulus, how it interacts with itself, what happens when it shuts down (death), and the properties within it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_human_hormones < Guess all of those are Invisible, huh?
Perhaps you cannot quantify them because you've never bothered to study up on them. Don't assume that others are as ignorant as you are choosing to be.

arauca said:
Yes tell me about dark matter
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It's that stuff between your ears.

Dark matter is a hypothesized material. You like to fall back on this as though it somehow validates your claims- It simply does not. It's not dogma or scripture- it's just a hypothesis due to EVIDENCE something your little sky daddy totally lacks. Evidence.
 
lightgigantic said:
There is the analogy of an elephant taking a bath - Cleans itself nicely in the water and then comes out and throws dirt all over itself. The hygienic aspecst of elephants aside,
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This is what is said:

He compared atonement to an elephant's bathing. The elephant may take a very nice bath in the river, but as soon as it comes onto the bank, it throws dirt all over its body. What, then, is the value of its bathing?

http://vedabase.net/noi/1/en

Clearly, here, elephant bathing is measured by human hygienic standards.


lightgigantic said:
hence : "The hygienic aspecst of elephants aside,..."
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The NoI makes no allowance for the specific hygienic principles for elephants.
 
wynn said:
This is what is said:

He compared atonement to an elephant's bathing. The elephant may take a very nice bath in the river, but as soon as it comes onto the bank, it throws dirt all over its body. What, then, is the value of its bathing?

http://vedabase.net/noi/1/en

Clearly, here, elephant bathing is measured by human hygienic standards.




The NoI makes no allowance for the specific hygienic principles for elephants.
Click to expand...
I guess we will have to make sure no elephants come to hear about this then ....
 
wynn said:
This is what is said:

He compared atonement to an elephant's bathing. The elephant may take a very nice bath in the river, but as soon as it comes onto the bank, it throws dirt all over its body. What, then, is the value of its bathing?



Clearly, here, elephant bathing is measured by human hygienic standards.




The NoI makes no allowance for the specific hygienic principles for elephants.
Click to expand...
I guess we will have to make sure no elephants come to hear about this then ...
 
Saint said:
I shall not fear doing any evil, because Jesus will pardon me no matter what kind of evil or sin I may do due to temptation or human nature's weaknesses.

Is Jesus able to violate the cause-and-effect law, cleans my sin and free me, so that the effect of sin is no longer effective on me.
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Fear is me
 
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