Does God have Respect for Life

[Balerion]

What makes you think human life deserves respect? Or do you think human life
deserves respect (from God)? If yes, why?

I don't think there is a god, so I guess the question is disqualified. But I'll answer the first part anyway: Yes, human life deserves respect. The strong must protect the weak, because society demands it. And because of that altruism, we show just how amazing a creature we are. We are the first species on this planet than can curb natural selection by actual preventing those otherwise unable to survive to do exactly that, and that archetype alone would demand respect from any god.

But since you are obviously a theist, let me ask you this: Why wouldn't we deserve respect?

 

[Sciencelovah]

I don't think there is a god, so I guess the question is disqualified. But I'll answer the first part anyway: Yes, human life deserves respect. The strong must protect the weak, because society demands it. And because of that altruism, we show just how amazing a creature we are. We are the first species on this planet than can curb natural selection by actual preventing those otherwise unable to survive to do exactly that, and that archetype alone would demand respect from any god.

But since you are obviously a theist, let me ask you this: Why wouldn't we deserve respect?

"Why wouldn't we deserve respect?". Well, as you actually mentioned, we
are amazing creature. So who deserve respect? The amazing creature or the
creator of the amazing creature? :shrug: I don't think He needs (respect) though,
so there is no need to respect Him.

 

[Balerion]

. So who deserve respect? The amazing creature or the
creator of the amazing creature?

Well, if you want to believe the recycled paganism that is the Judeo-Christian belief system (Or perhaps the recycled Christianity that is Islam), then we deserve the respect, because we were given free will.

I don't think He needs (respect) though,
so there is no need to respect Him.

That's not what "He" says.

 

[Sciencelovah]

then we deserve the respect, because we were given free will.

We deserve respect because we were given free will? That doesn't seem correlate to me.

That's not what "He" says.

True. That was what I say. Not Him.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

why isn't life turning out correctly?

Correctly?:shrug: Your first mistake is thinking someone is grading you. I thought, wrongly it seems, that you were beyond thinking like the masses.

this is a bogus argument from the bishop

Aw, he was just giving a kid the brush-off. There were people in more need of his words of wisdom than I, like the wealthy who were also in attendance.

Human life is simply the opportunity to understand god. Other forms of life are simply about sleeping, eating, mating and defending (although its indicative of modern culture to also bring human life to such a level ...)

I understand He has no respect for life. How am I doing so far?

 

[lightgigantic]

Correctly?:shrug: Your first mistake is thinking someone is grading you. I thought, wrongly it seems, that you were beyond thinking like the masses.

actually I am just reiterating your argument / seeking a clarification

"Can you be a creator and still have respect for life even if it didn't turn out the way you planned or is a lack of respect needed in order to make adjustments?"

:shrug:

Aw, he was just giving a kid the brush-off. There were people in more need of his words of wisdom than I, like the wealthy who were also in attendance.

generally if a person advocates a scriptural conclusion (like the one offered by the bishop) there should also be a scriptural reference - otherwise it becomes difficult to distinguish between fundamentals to a teaching and -well- sciforums

I understand He has no respect for life. How am I doing so far?

I'm not sure how that relates to my comment

 

[Balerion]

We deserve respect because we were given free will? That doesn't seem correlate to me.

No, the point was that if you believe in the Abrahamic God, then you believe he gave us free will. And despite the fact that we have free will, we still show kindness and generosity and all that good stuff.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

LG....Let's assume for a moment He exists....If it was god's idea to create humans then he can do whatever he wants to them, seeing how he owns the patent. We can show respect for his creations but there is no need for god to return the favor. If you create it then you may have to destroy it or tweak it. Morally unethical to destroy or make adjustments to something you respect.

As for religious authorities, I have little respect. Oh, they may emit an aura of righteousness and holiness but I cannot take them seriously. I don't know why but I think its because I find religion a total human construct that no God worth His salt would ever approve. Tolerate maybe.

It is my understanding of god that there is nothng I can possibly know about him/her/it. Nothing. God is or isn't. Makes no difference if you philosophize, speculate, or form a religion because none of it means anything. If God depends on faith then you have to have faith in all other attributes which essentially makes them pure conjecture. I'm happy to leave it at that, yes or no. There is nothing anyone can write, lecture or meditate about God for he is merely a construct with no concrete foundation to build upon.

 

[lightgigantic]

LG....Let's assume for a moment He exists....If it was god's idea to create humans then he can do whatever he wants to them, seeing how he owns the patent. We can show respect for his creations but there is no need for god to return the favor. If you create it then you may have to destroy it or tweak it. Morally unethical to destroy or make adjustments to something you respect.

agreed
that is why the constitutional position of the living entity is eternal
(IOW its only under the influence of material energy - or temporal existence - that the living entity appears to go through stages of birth and annihilation)
God has given us eternal life and he doesn't tamper with that or revoke it.

As for religious authorities, I have little respect.

lol
mild understatement, don't you think

Oh, they may emit an aura of righteousness and holiness but I cannot take them seriously. I don't know why but I think its because I find religion a total human construct that no God worth His salt would ever approve. Tolerate maybe.

my point was that even religious authorities have an authority they must submit to

It is my understanding of god that there is nothng I can possibly know about him/her/it.

what on earth makes you say that?

Nothing. God is or isn't. Makes no difference if you philosophize, speculate, or form a religion because none of it means anything. If God depends on faith then you have to have faith in all other attributes which essentially makes them pure conjecture. I'm happy to leave it at that, yes or no. There is nothing anyone can write, lecture or meditate about God for he is merely a construct with no concrete foundation to build upon.

I think we have gone over it before how faith is inherent to all claims of knowledge, at least in the beginning.
And I think we have gone over before how religious testimony that cannot go further than faith becomes difficult to distinguish from sentimentalism

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

what on earth makes you say that?

God never was, if he exists then he's not here by choice, doesn't care, or god is dead..

Personally I cannot make the jump to believing. Not that I haven't been tempted in my lifetime to do so but everytime I think someone says something profoundly convincing my brain goes into instant analysis and has to this point always concluded god does not exist. There is nothing I can possibly know about god because he is in absentia.

When I tried meditation years ago I found that because my mind had been previously contaminated by suggestion, it was pointless to use it as a tool for enlightenment. What meditation taught me though, was that if I were to find God then I had to be inventive. Your level of inventiveness is what determines the strength of your faith or belief. You convince yourself IOW, and is somewhat egotistical I might add. No construct of mine or of somebody else's is going to push me over to the believer side.

So it appears if I want a God to respect me then I need to find one that does.

 

[lightgigantic]

God never was, if he exists then he's not here by choice, doesn't care, or god is dead..

once again, I have to ask what makes you say that ...

Personally I cannot make the jump to believing. Not that I haven't been tempted in my lifetime to do so but everytime I think someone says something profoundly convincing my brain goes into instant analysis and has to this point always concluded god does not exist. There is nothing I can possibly know about god because he is in absentia.

When I tried meditation years ago I found that because my mind had been previously contaminated by suggestion, it was pointless to use it as a tool for enlightenment. What meditation taught me though, was that if I were to find God then I had to be inventive. Your level of inventiveness is what determines the strength of your faith or belief. You convince yourself IOW, and is somewhat egotistical I might add. No construct of mine or of somebody else's is going to push me over to the believer side.

basically for every knowable object or thing or state there is a process that goes with it - for instance (as an absurd example) if I was incredibly sincere about finding information about Karl Marx in Antartica, I would draw up a big fat zero, despite my sincerity.
Admittedly its precisely this issue of practice that tends to get neglected even in so-called professional circles of theistic progress.

So it appears if I want a God to respect me then I need to find one that does.

what is it exactly about yourself that you require god to respect?
and in what ways doesn't god respect it?

 

[lightgigantic]

“
Jdawg

that and a whole lot more are just regular daily goings on in the material world
just read the newspaper ”
That wasn't the question, so don't twist my meaning. The question was "Does God Respect Life" and I gave the answer and reasons.

Not sure what your point is.
I mean how much of the violence in the world (guaged from your average newspaper) is related to inherently religious issues and how much to inherent economic/political issues?

lol
just try and propose an argument for a way of life that doesn't involve servitude ”
We're not talking about theoretical servitude to the almighty dollar, we're talking about a servitude to God, where if you do not do his bidding, you are sent to hell for eternity.

We’re talking about eternal hell?
Well for a start the notion of being sent to hell for eternity is not a uniform theistic conclusion (even hell is temporary so the soul is only capable of having an eternal experience with god in his kingdom, aka vaishnavism) … and the very fact that you cannot argue a way of life that doesn’t involve ideas of servitude indicates that it is our constant (or eternal) companion …. So I guess the only question that remains is which things are more praiseworthy to serve than others. At the very least it’s not clear why indicating an issue of service is an indication of fault, since it’s the very medium from which we draw all forms of loving exchanges and meaning and even just good old pragmatic subsistence .

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

once again, I have to ask what makes you say that ...

Religion is like science fiction to me. Most religions speak of a god. Therefore god is like science fiction to me.

Because god is oft mentioned I cannot in fairness to myself, dwell on his existence. All I can do is select yes or no as to god's existence and leave it at that. I need god to give me a reason to believe in him and I don't want to hear it from a human being.

I have asked myself that if I were to have never heard of god would I eventually mention or conjure him? Would I have enough of a reason to think I'm not alone, with respect to a supernatural being? If I was to eventually think of a god then the next step is to have the courage of my conviction. Personally I do not regard thoughts or ideas as proof and thus I would see god as something I've concocted.

 

[lightgigantic]

Religion is like science fiction to me. Most religions speak of a god. Therefore god is like science fiction to me.

Because god is oft mentioned I cannot in fairness to myself, dwell on his existence. All I can do is select yes or no as to god's existence and leave it at that. I need god to give me a reason to believe in him and I don't want to hear it from a human being.

I have asked myself that if I were to have never heard of god would I eventually mention or conjure him? Would I have enough of a reason to think I'm not alone, with respect to a supernatural being? If I was to eventually think of a god then the next step is to have the courage of my conviction. Personally I do not regard thoughts or ideas as proof and thus I would see god as something I've concocted.

when you say something like god is dead or doesn't exist you are making a claim about reality.
For instance at a certain time and place discussion of electrons would also seem like an issue of science fiction.
This says more about the time and the place than the substance of the claim.
Similarly, to talk of how god doesn't strike one seems to take the same path

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

when you say something like god is dead or doesn't exist you are making a claim about reality.

God is an idea, a reality I have no problem with. Do I wish to live by it? No. I'm not the one claiming god is a reality. My suggestion that he never was or is dead is meant for those who keep the idea alive. I, we, all of us have but 1 choice to make. Problem is that there are only 2 options. I made my choice and I see nothing wrong with it. Once the choice was made I am bound to make the suggestion of God being absent. Why is inconsequential. It kind of goes with saying He ain't.

You know, I have never heard of god outside of a religious reference and no one to my knowledge has ever been given that kind of opportunity. Why does God need religious attachment?

 

[lightgigantic]

God is an idea, a reality I have no problem with. Do I wish to live by it? No. I'm not the one claiming god is a reality.

but you are claiming something about the reality of god

My suggestion that he never was or is dead is meant for those who keep the idea alive. I, we, all of us have but 1 choice to make. Problem is that there are only 2 options. I made my choice and I see nothing wrong with it. Once the choice was made I am bound to make the suggestion of God being absent. Why is inconsequential. It kind of goes with saying He ain't.

unlike theistic claims, you have no positive basis for your claim of reality - hence its an absolute negative ... which has grave philosophical implications

You know, I have never heard of god outside of a religious reference and no one to my knowledge has ever been given that kind of opportunity. Why does God need religious attachment?[/QUOTE]
I've never heard of electrons being discussed out of science either

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

but you are claiming something about the reality of god

An idea about God is something about his reality? An idea of no god...same thing?

unlike theistic claims, you have no positive basis for your claim of reality - hence its an absolute negative ... which has grave philosophical implications

Never said I did. I'm not claiming anything...to claim it then I have to prove it, then I have to argue it. I choose not to believe, not based on any evidence, but because the human element cannot be removed from any actual claim if I were to make one. I merely choose not to believe in God. Definitely something might change my mind some day but only after careful analysis.

I've never heard of electrons being discussed out of science either

Nice try. Even religion can't ignore science. Life would be much simpler if God, should he exist, had said 'figure out how I did it'

 

[lightgigantic]

An idea about God is something about his reality? An idea of no god...same thing?

sure there is a point where god is simply an idea
there is however a stage beyond that
(iow theistic claims have recourse to practice and furthermore conclusion, unlike atheistic claims which have no capacity to go past theory)

Never said I did. I'm not claiming anything...

to claim it then I have to prove it, then I have to argue it. I choose not to believe, not based on any evidence, but because the human element cannot be removed from any actual claim if I were to make one. I merely choose not to believe in God. Definitely something might change my mind some day but only after careful analysis.

fair enough

Nice try. Even religion can't ignore science.

and maths can't ignore sociology either

Life would be much simpler if God, should he exist, had said 'figure out how I did it'

why would he want to say something like that?
IOW, given the inherent limitations of empiricism (ie our material senses), why would that make things easier?

 

[Balerion]

Not sure what your point is.
I mean how much of the violence in the world (guaged from your average newspaper) is related to inherently religious issues and how much to inherent economic/political issues?

Violence? There is an entire region of this world that is falling apart because of their religion. The Middle East is always at war with itself, or with someone else, because of their faith. Right now, violence for any other reason can't hold a candle to violence in the name of God.

We’re talking about eternal hell?
Well for a start the notion of being sent to hell for eternity is not a uniform theistic conclusion (even hell is temporary so the soul is only capable of having an eternal experience with god in his kingdom, aka vaishnavism) … and the very fact that you cannot argue a way of life that doesn’t involve ideas of servitude indicates that it is our constant (or eternal) companion …. So I guess the only question that remains is which things are more praiseworthy to serve than others. At the very least it’s not clear why indicating an issue of service is an indication of fault, since it’s the very medium from which we draw all forms of loving exchanges and meaning and even just good old pragmatic subsistence .

Dude, there is no servitude in this life. I could invent something today, sell it tomorrow, and never work another day in my life. Religious worship, on the other hand, is a profiteering racket at best, and a form of political control at worst. Oh no, wait, it's a tool for mass murder at worst, nevermind.

Servitude is the basis for nothing good. That's why we rail against it every time it is put upon us. That is why slavery is just so inherently wrong to us.

Not everyone is a sheep like you, Light. Seriously. Some of us can find love and happiness without having to fall to our knees and give some invisible lord the credit for our good work.

 

[lightgigantic]

Jdawg

Originally Posted by lightgigantic
Not sure what your point is.
I mean how much of the violence in the world (guaged from your average newspaper) is related to inherently religious issues and how much to inherent economic/political issues?
”
Violence? There is an entire region of this world that is falling apart because of their religion. The Middle East is always at war with itself, or with someone else, because of their faith. Right now, violence for any other reason can't hold a candle to violence in the name of God.

kind of strange the way they always call upon political and economic advisers (as opposed to religious ones) to explain or deal with the situation

“
We’re talking about eternal hell?
Well for a start the notion of being sent to hell for eternity is not a uniform theistic conclusion (even hell is temporary so the soul is only capable of having an eternal experience with god in his kingdom, aka vaishnavism) … and the very fact that you cannot argue a way of life that doesn’t involve ideas of servitude indicates that it is our constant (or eternal) companion …. So I guess the only question that remains is which things are more praiseworthy to serve than others. At the very least it’s not clear why indicating an issue of service is an indication of fault, since it’s the very medium from which we draw all forms of loving exchanges and meaning and even just good old pragmatic subsistence .
”
Dude, there is no servitude in this life. I could invent something today, sell it tomorrow, and never work another day in my life.

and then complain about how lonely it is to be rich I guess ... unless of course you lowered your standards to adopt issues of servitude that finds its expression in all sorts of familial dealings ...

Religious worship, on the other hand, is a profiteering racket at best, and a form of political control at worst. Oh no, wait, it's a tool for mass murder at worst, nevermind.

anyway if you want to judge a genre by its worst stereotype I'm sure you will never get anywhere (especially coming from a person who just advocated selling some sort of thing to live a life of non-commitment as perfectional)

Servitude is the basis for nothing good.

at this point your mother and father would probably describe you as ungrateful

That's why we rail against it every time it is put upon us. That is why slavery is just so inherently wrong to us.

or alternatively, that is the result of dovetailing one's inherent serving nature to things or objects not worthy of it

Not everyone is a sheep like you, Light.

lol

Seriously. Some of us can find love and happiness without having to fall to our knees and give some invisible lord the credit for our good work.

well if you think you can find love and happiness, even the mundane variety, without approaching issues of servitude I think you still have a lot to learn in life