Does God care about atheists

[Xelasnave.1947]

Don't churches do that already?

I dont know the set up must look into it.
Alex

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

I had a look at the ATOs approach but it did not mention council rates..in retrospect obviously cause rates would come under the local government act...
But lookinh at the ATO rules I think you wiuld need at least a small group of folk doing no profit work on a religious base...there is hope for us to organise a business but I am not that interested, but then apart from astro photos little interests me certainly stsrting a tax free business is not on my list.
You know how the government has a view to pass more social security matters to the churches ..I now get it they are just trying to get something from the tax they dont receive...I thought it was terrible policy but it seems it may be getting something for the benefit the churches receive...who knows.
Alex

 

[Michael 345]

..I thought it was terrible policy but it seems it may be getting something for the benefit the churches receive...who knows.
Alex

So from the millions Scientology gets, how many thousand soup kitchens do you think they operate?

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

So from the millions Scientology gets, how many thousand soup kitchens do you think they operate?

I dont know but let me guess not a single one.

What a scam.

Alex

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

From Wiki....
Scientology beliefs revolve around the immortal soul, the thetan.[124][127][158]Scientology teaches that the thetan is the true identity of a person – an intrinsically good, omniscient, non-material core capable of unlimited creativity.[124][127]

Hubbard taught that thetans brought the material universe into being largely for their own pleasure.[127] The universe has no independent reality, but derives its apparent reality from the fact that thetans agree it exists.[124] Thetans fell from grace when they began to identify with their creation rather than their original state of spiritual purity.[127]Eventually they lost their memory of their true nature, along with the associated spiritual and creative powers. As a result, thetans came to think of themselves as nothing but embodied beings.[124][129]

Thetans are reborn time and time again in new bodies through a process called "assumption" which is analogous to reincarnation.[127] Scientology posits a causal relationship between the experiences of earlier incarnations and one's present life, and with each rebirth, the effects of the MEST universe (MEST here stands for matter, energy, space, and time) on the thetan become stronger.[127]

Alex

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

So are scientologists atheists???
Alex

 

[Jan Ardena]

The point is just because you hold the perception of some sort of expressed separation between "I" and your body that perception establishes nothing along the lines you hope for...

I don't have to hold a perception. It is what it is. Rather than gloss over it, you should look into it. Or alternatively hold on to your house of cards position. No doubt for comfort.

By all means extend your perception as far as you wish but please at some point tie your arguement to more than this one strange claim.

I'm claiming that the "I" and the body aren't the same. Unless you can contradict it, you have to accept it. Denial is the other option.

I expect your inability to understand is contrived and if so I suggest use a tactic that does not show you in what I say is "not a good look"... If you simply" dont get it" I can not suggest suitable management of your problem.

Alex, you can think what you like, but it is at least polite to address the questions and point put forth to you. Not be so wrapped up in what you think my aim is, that you spend the whole time discussing with your strawman.

You want more than wiki?
You really should take the time and read wiki and if you cant determine that the soul is a made up concept from there I really have no idea how to convince you.

That's because you have no idea, and cannot convince anyone, even yourself.
You're in denial Alex, and I don't mean the river.

I think you have not read it although you hint that you have I am sure that you choose your words carefully to give the impression that you had read it.
And I think without reading wiki you have made up your mind that wiki is not for you.
So did you read wiki or not?

Of course I have. Why do you think I wouldn't have? But I don't see anything in there that would either make convinced, or unconvinced of the concept of the soul. How does it determine that the soul is a made up concept?

Jan.

 

[Bells]

Mod Note

One infraction issued, one post deleted and one post edited to remove offensive and slanderous content. Let's try and keep it civil.

 

[Jan Ardena]

You describe an atheist yet I mention a movement.. Atheism... Which is indeed a growing movement where all involved hope to see superstition leave our world.

A movement filled with atheists.
I guess you want a world where God is denied, or forgotten by everyone.
I think it will get like that, but I doubt it will be like the fantasy you have in your head.

The fact I say so should be the only authority you require.

Okay.

True. I know you probably feel like you are losing with so many atheists running around and growing as the popular modern approach to reality but as we take over we will be kind to the believers, if any, who remain.

I doubt that.

Your answers were very helpful and I thank you for same.
As is often the case answers generate more questions.

Why were they helpful?

Jan.

 

[Michael 345]

From Wiki....
Scientology beliefs revolve around the immortal soul, the thetan.[124][127][158]Scientology teaches that the thetan is the true identity of a person – an intrinsically good, omniscient, non-material core capable of unlimited creativity.[124][127]

Hubbard taught that thetans brought the material universe into being largely for their own pleasure.[127] The universe has no independent reality, but derives its apparent reality from the fact that thetans agree it exists.[124] Thetans fell from grace when they began to identify with their creation rather than their original state of spiritual purity.[127]Eventually they lost their memory of their true nature, along with the associated spiritual and creative powers. As a result, thetans came to think of themselves as nothing but embodied beings.[124][129]

Thetans are reborn time and time again in new bodies through a process called "assumption" which is analogous to reincarnation.[127] Scientology posits a causal relationship between the experiences of earlier incarnations and one's present life, and with each rebirth, the effects of the MEST universe (MEST here stands for matter, energy, space, and time) on the thetan become stronger.[127]

Alex

It's truly amazing how high you can pile Cowpat and get people to pay you for the privilege of explaining how the Cowpat enriches not just this life but the other place where you go after you you die

Where they give you a home where the Cowpat is loam
Where the suckers all worship and pay
Where seldom is heard, because it's absurd
Stand by because god's on his way


Amazing what late night coffee can do

 

[birch]

From Wiki....
Scientology beliefs revolve around the immortal soul, the thetan.[124][127][158]Scientology teaches that the thetan is the true identity of a person – an intrinsically good, omniscient, non-material core capable of unlimited creativity.[124][127]

Hubbard taught that thetans brought the material universe into being largely for their own pleasure.[127] The universe has no independent reality, but derives its apparent reality from the fact that thetans agree it exists.[124] Thetans fell from grace when they began to identify with their creation rather than their original state of spiritual purity.[127]Eventually they lost their memory of their true nature, along with the associated spiritual and creative powers. As a result, thetans came to think of themselves as nothing but embodied beings.[124][129]

Thetans are reborn time and time again in new bodies through a process called "assumption" which is analogous to reincarnation.[127] Scientology posits a causal relationship between the experiences of earlier incarnations and one's present life, and with each rebirth, the effects of the MEST universe (MEST here stands for matter, energy, space, and time) on the thetan become stronger.[127]

what's the discrepancy of beliefs like this is as a way to 'unite' people still remains superficial because it's not always about what you believe but what you are.

it's like any party. whatever makes up the majority of it is what it is. from my experience with scientologists in general were that they were shallow/superficial, egotistical, inhumane, and are not insightful because they don't think for themselves so cultish.

personally, what i saw was average people who had a superiority complex through this membership like costco or amway.

lmfao!

 

[Beer w/Straw]

It's actually hard for me to make a meaningful apology to, Jan, since I don't know Jan well to warrant my slanderous remarks. What I can say is that I really, really, really don't like, Roy Moore. I also have an inability of separating politics from religion and my discontentment can easily be misplaced. I was wrong in the words I used and hope that they weren't taken too personally. They only way my words could have been fitting is if I were actually conversing with, Roy Moore.

I'm sorry.

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

It is what it is.

It is an opinion and furthermore unsupported.

Or alternatively hold on to your house of cards position.

At least a house of cards has a stronger link to reality than the notion that there is anything in reality that is what you call a soul.

Unless you can contradict it, you have to accept it.

I dont have to accept any made up notion more so as there is absolutely no evidence of this made up soul.

Alex, you can think what you like, but it is at least polite to address the questions and point put forth to you.

What point do you think I have not addressed?

That's because you have no idea

I said that I had no idea how to convince you so we agree that I said such.

How does it determine that the soul is a made up concept?

That was my interpretation.
Did you read the lake bit.. there is your clue.

I think it will get like that, but I doubt it will be like the fantasy you have in your head.

I have not told anyone about the fantasy that I dont have.

Okay

Enlightenment is now within your reach.

I doubt that.

Yes sadly history suggests intolerance will always be with us but if they come to get you call me.

Why were they helpful?

You helped me realise that you believe in the concept of a soul.
And the bit about a soul being in a body as opposed to floating around like a ghost.. Which was what I thought folk thought how a soul carried on...
Alex

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

personally, what i saw was average people who had a superiority complex through this membership like costco or amway.

I see what you mean.
Like members in a bike gang.
Many humans need to belong... Think sports fans.
Alex

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

I'm sorry.

Many think you should never say sorry but I think it is a wonderful thing to be able to do.
You have my sincere respect.
Not all men are like Moore.. A real man does not have to be a scum bag.
I would execute scum bags on the spot they deserve more than just being exposed.
Their egos wont allow them to admit they are wrong or even say sorry.
Cull them.
Alex

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

A little joy.
A mate rang me earlier today and told how he gave another bloke we know a real proper flogging because he caught him hitting his wife. Beat him to a stand still, my mate suffered a gash to the head but nothing serious. This guy is such a scum bag.
I was talking to his wife one night at the club and he butted in carrying on like a pork chop.
I was disgusted the way he talked to her so when my mate called and told me he gave him a flogging I was happy. The dog should be shot, maybe next time.
Alex

 

[Jan Ardena]

It is an opinion and furthermore unsupported.

Unfortunately for you, it's not.
You attest to it by claiming ownership.
When someone claims that something is ''mine'', it means they are separate from that which they claim. By default.

I dont have to accept any made up notion more so as there is absolutely no evidence of this made up soul.

I didn't say anything about it being a soul.
You have to accept, on the above basis, that you are separate to anything you regard as ''mine''.
Unless you can explain to the contrary.

What point do you think I have not addressed?

Nothing. You're avoiding everything by playing games.

I said that I had no idea how to convince you so we agree that I said such.

Because you have no idea. You're simply defending your amnesia.

That was my interpretation.
Did you read the lake bit.. there is your clue.

Read above.

I have not told anyone about the fantasy that I dont have.

But you tell everyone about the fantasy you do hold in your head.
No need to state the obvious.

Yes sadly history suggests intolerance will always be with us but if they come to get you call me.

No thanks.

jan.

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

Unfortunately for you, it's not.

Your hollow protests are cute but you still have yet to show you have anything to offer that is fact and not mere unsubstantiated opinion.

You attest to it by claiming ownership.

Sure I do, but if you had anything more than that odd observation your case still would have no substance.

When someone claims that something is ''mine'', it means they are separate from that which they claim.

True now where did I put my heart, oh I left it in the wash, silly me.

By default.

De fault is with your odd observation.
On a serious note do you like your current body given its brain is not functioning properly and holding you away from enlightenment.

I didn't say anything about it being a soul.

Thats great because I thought that was what you were about to suggest.
All you are saying is "I" is separate from your body I think I get it ... so "I" is not your soul but "I" owns your body.
Is that your your unsupported opinion.
So armed with this knowledge what should we conclude.

You have to accept, on the above basis, that you are separate to anything you regard as ''mine''.

Jan in an effort to move the discussion along could you explain the significance of your opinion and how it fits into your world view.

Unless you can explain to the contrary.

Well I cant do that anymore than can I explain why the easter bunny does not exist.

You're avoiding everything by playing games.

You may be right so I will stop playing games and focus on your opinion as you express it.
Please go ahead and expand on what you have provided so far.

Because you have no idea.

Yes thats what I said.

You're simply defending your amnesia.

Yes of course I am...but dont forget that I said that I have no idea...write it down in case you forget.

Read above

So you did not read the lake bit? That means you havent got a clue..at least the one I offerred.

But you tell everyone about the fantasy

Oh you mean my fantasy about how good it would be if God really did exist and suffering eliminated.
I know its fantasy but unfortunately many believe that my fantasy is reality.

No thanks.

You are welcome.

Alex

 

[Jan Ardena]

Your hollow protests are cute but you still have yet to show you have anything to offer that is fact and not mere unsubstantiated opinion.

Firstly. What protests?
Secondly: Do you deny that anything that is regarded as "mine", is separate to the claimant?

Sure I do, but if you had anything more than that odd observation your case still would have no substance.

Erm! What are you talking about?

True now where did I put my heart, oh I left it in the wash, silly me.

You didnt put your heart anywhere. It's a part of your body. Did you say "my" heart?

My: belonging to or associated with the speaker.

Do you get my drift?

De fault is with your odd observation.

Show where my observation is "odd"?

Thats great because I thought that was what you were about to suggest.

Don't need to.
Don't want to.

All you are saying is "I" is separate from your body I think I get it ... so "I" is not your soul but "I" owns your body.
Is that your your unsupported opinion.
So armed with this knowledge what should we conclude.

Personally, I think that's enough. You can't not accept that "I" and "mine" are separate. My work is done.

Jan in an effort to move the discussion along could you explain the significance of your opinion and how it fits into your world view.

No.

Well I cant do that anymore than can I explain why the easter bunny does not exist.

Of course you can't contradict what I'm saying, because you know it's true. I know that you know it's true, and no amount of denial can change that.
Anything else you need to know about the soul, will be revealed to you in the course of time, now that you have been exposed to a real truth.

Please go ahead and expand on what you have provided so far.

Already done it.

Jan.

 

[Jan Ardena]

It's actually hard for me to make a meaningful apology to, Jan, since I don't know Jan well to warrant my slanderous remarks.

Why did you make those remarks in the first place?

As far as I know, I've never said anything bad, or nasty about you.

It's not nice to make false accusations, but it is wrong to make such serious accusations on a public forum.

Do you see that?

You don't need to know me to appologize for that.

There's no need for us to be nasty to each other, because we don't agree, or like each others worldview.

Jan.