I'm not because I don't think it would be possible to distinguish between a mimicked self aware and real self aware
Take AI ai its word???
Do you think that AI will ever feel emotions?
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Take AI ai its word???
Tell me why emotion requires biology.
I think we can only perceive emotions based on our own perception of emotions, and how we display emotions. If we use that as the parameter for emotional expression, we can’t perceive machines being capable of independent emotion. I liken this to anthropomorphism in that it seems like a forcing of human emotions onto AI, and believing that to be an independent function within AI.
If that makes sense?
If that makes sense?
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
Is emotion an "acquired" (learned) intellectual electrochemical response? If so can emotion be acquired by any electrochemical intellectual processing machine?
We see these things as natural instinctive response mechanism, but are they not evolved properties acquired by natural selection. If so can this process be replicated artificially?
Can we teach an AI to have compassionate responses.
Is the ability to "feel" (experience) attraction and repulsion purely human? Is the mirror function exclusively reserved for biological beings?
How about an amoeba? The Paramecium has sex and interestingly, that is the only time it does not move.
How about "quorum sensing" in bacteria that triggers a mass response in virulence?
Different networks in the brain can create the same emotion. And yes, emotions are created by our brain. It is the way our brain gives meaning to bodily sensations based on past experience. Different core networks all contribute at different levels to feelings such as happiness, surprise, sadness and anger.
https://www.noldus.com/blog/how-emo...ks in the brain,, surprise, sadness and anger.
Sorry busy here so not read the linked article but even from the extract it appears emotions are born from past experiences imbuing us with experiences
The ability of tiny, "simple" multicellular organisms -- that likewise lack nervous systems -- to mimic conscious-like behavior... Can supposedly now be accounted for by blatant mechanical-like operations. This view might be extended to unicellular life. At any rate, choice-making brains (and their concomitant experiences) seem to have dropped in value or had their elite status tarnished in some areas, as a consequence.
Before brains, biomechanics may have ruled animal behavior
https://www.quantamagazine.org/before-brains-mechanics-may-have-ruled-animal-behavior-20220316/
Biomechanical interactions, rather than neurons, control the movements of one of the simplest animals. The discovery offers a glimpse into how animal behavior worked before neurons evolved.
INTRO (excerpts): The biophysicist Manu Prakash vividly remembers [...] when he peered into a microscope and met his new obsession. ... resembling an amoeba more than anything else ... It moved on thousands of cilia that blanketed its underside to form the “sticky hairy plate” that inspired its Latin name, Trichoplax adhaerens.
[...] what intrigued Prakash most was the well-orchestrated grace, agility and efficiency with which the thousands to millions of cells in Trichoplax moved. After all, such coordination usually requires neurons and muscles — and Trichoplax has neither.
Prakash later teamed up with Matthew Storm Bull [...] to make this strange organism the star of an ambitious project aimed at understanding how neuromuscular systems might have evolved — and how early multicellular creatures managed to move, find food and reproduce before neurons existed.
“I often jokingly call this neuroscience without neurons,” Prakash said.
In a trio of preprints totaling more than 100 pages — posted simultaneously on the arxiv.org server last year — he and Bull showed that the behavior of Trichoplax could be described entirely in the language of physics and dynamical systems. Mechanical interactions that began at the level of a single cilium, and then multiplied over millions of cells and extended to higher levels of structure, fully explained the coordinated locomotion of the entire animal. The organism doesn’t “choose” what to do. Instead, the horde of individual cilia simply moves — and the animal as a whole performs as though it is being directed by a nervous system. The researchers even showed that the cilia’s dynamics exhibit properties that are commonly seen as distinctive hallmarks of neurons.
The work not only demonstrates how simple mechanical interactions can generate incredible complexity, but also tells a compelling story about what might have predated the evolution of the nervous system. [...] The [biophysics] findings have already started to inspire the design of mechanical machines and robots, and perhaps even a new way of thinking about the role of nervous systems in animal behavior.
Brains are overrated. [...] In the fields known as “soft robotics” and “active matter,” research has demonstrated that the right mechanical dynamics can be all that’s needed to accomplish complex tasks without centralized control.
In fact, single cells alone are capable of remarkable behaviors, and they can self-assemble into collective systems (such as slime molds or xenobots) that can achieve even more, all without the help of neurons or muscles... (MORE - missing details)
https://www.quantamagazine.org/before-brains-mechanics-may-have-ruled-animal-behavior-20220316/
Biomechanical interactions, rather than neurons, control the movements of one of the simplest animals. The discovery offers a glimpse into how animal behavior worked before neurons evolved.
INTRO (excerpts): The biophysicist Manu Prakash vividly remembers [...] when he peered into a microscope and met his new obsession. ... resembling an amoeba more than anything else ... It moved on thousands of cilia that blanketed its underside to form the “sticky hairy plate” that inspired its Latin name, Trichoplax adhaerens.
[...] what intrigued Prakash most was the well-orchestrated grace, agility and efficiency with which the thousands to millions of cells in Trichoplax moved. After all, such coordination usually requires neurons and muscles — and Trichoplax has neither.
Prakash later teamed up with Matthew Storm Bull [...] to make this strange organism the star of an ambitious project aimed at understanding how neuromuscular systems might have evolved — and how early multicellular creatures managed to move, find food and reproduce before neurons existed.
“I often jokingly call this neuroscience without neurons,” Prakash said.
In a trio of preprints totaling more than 100 pages — posted simultaneously on the arxiv.org server last year — he and Bull showed that the behavior of Trichoplax could be described entirely in the language of physics and dynamical systems. Mechanical interactions that began at the level of a single cilium, and then multiplied over millions of cells and extended to higher levels of structure, fully explained the coordinated locomotion of the entire animal. The organism doesn’t “choose” what to do. Instead, the horde of individual cilia simply moves — and the animal as a whole performs as though it is being directed by a nervous system. The researchers even showed that the cilia’s dynamics exhibit properties that are commonly seen as distinctive hallmarks of neurons.
The work not only demonstrates how simple mechanical interactions can generate incredible complexity, but also tells a compelling story about what might have predated the evolution of the nervous system. [...] The [biophysics] findings have already started to inspire the design of mechanical machines and robots, and perhaps even a new way of thinking about the role of nervous systems in animal behavior.
Brains are overrated. [...] In the fields known as “soft robotics” and “active matter,” research has demonstrated that the right mechanical dynamics can be all that’s needed to accomplish complex tasks without centralized control.
In fact, single cells alone are capable of remarkable behaviors, and they can self-assemble into collective systems (such as slime molds or xenobots) that can achieve even more, all without the help of neurons or muscles... (MORE - missing details)
Also: Magnetic slime bot
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
Please post on topic.
What you see is microtubule action called "pseudopodia"
The microtubule is a remarkable self-organizing dipolar coil, able to change its length and electric resistance properties.
It seems that the microtubules in the cytoplasm and cytoskeleton are capable of a host of information processes. This is exactly what intrigued Roger Penrose in regard to the question of emergent consciousness.
Introduction.
Microtubules and Their Role in Cellular Stress in Cancer - Frontiers
https://www.frontiersin.org › fonc.2014.00153 › full
For a fairly comprehensive catalogue of microtubule functions, see also my thread on microtubules in the Pseudo-Science subforum.
It is truly remarkable that all Eukaryotic organisms have microtubules in common. Even more remarkable is the fact that microtubules are instrumental in all sensory information transportation, decision making, and response processes (including cell division) in every individual living cell.
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What you see is microtubule action called "pseudopodia"
The microtubule is a remarkable self-organizing dipolar coil, able to change its length and electric resistance properties.
It seems that the microtubules in the cytoplasm and cytoskeleton are capable of a host of information processes. This is exactly what intrigued Roger Penrose in regard to the question of emergent consciousness.
Introduction.
Microtubules and Their Role in Cellular Stress in Cancer - Frontiers
https://www.frontiersin.org › fonc.2014.00153 › full
For a fairly comprehensive catalogue of microtubule functions, see also my thread on microtubules in the Pseudo-Science subforum.
It is truly remarkable that all Eukaryotic organisms have microtubules in common. Even more remarkable is the fact that microtubules are instrumental in all sensory information transportation, decision making, and response processes (including cell division) in every individual living cell.
What of algae ? Are there microtubles in Algae ? Just asking . The most important living form on the planet .
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
Yes.
For a more detailed description see my thread on microtubules.
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
The answer to your question is "Yes" and one of the critical functions they perform in all Eukaryotic cells is Mitosis (cell division).
Go on . So far No AI .
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
In case you missed the entire point. Individual organic cells already display quasi-conscious intelligence, which is a function of microtubules.
In other words, one does not have to be human or even organic to be able to acquire an emergent intelligence.
I already know this Write4U .
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
Are we in agreement then?
One thing I want to make absolutely clear. I do not ascribe self-aware consciousness to microtubules. Conscious intelligence is an emergent "quality" of certain complex patterns. In organic cells this pattern in very primitive form may well be found in the cytoskeleton, even in the absence of neurons which of course also contain microtubules.
In biological organisms this is obvious as displayed by the infinite variety of conscious organisms.
I see no reason to exclude specific electro-chemical patterns from acquiring forms of intelligence. Ever looked at carbon nano-tubes?
https://www.researchgate.net/figure...rinted-with-permission-from-18_fig5_281106444
https://www.nisenet.org/sites/default/files/catalog/uploads/2514/strucbucky_guide_15nov10.pdf
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Are we in agreement then?
One thing I want to make absolutely clear. I do not ascribe self-aware consciousness to microtubules. Conscious intelligence is an emergent "quality" of certain complex patterns. In organic cells this pattern in very primitive form may well be found in the cytoskeleton, even in the absence of neurons which of course also contain microtubules.
In biological organisms this is obvious as displayed by the infinite variety of conscious organisms.
I see no reason to exclude specific electro-chemical patterns from acquiring forms of intelligence. Ever looked at a "bucky ball"?
What is a Bucky ball used for?
https://www.nisenet.org/sites/default/files/catalog/uploads/2514/strucbucky_guide_15nov10.pdf
Life form the microtubles .
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
No these are pure carbon nano-tubules and AFAIK are also self-organizing in nature, but not self-regulating.
Arranged in certain crystal patterns they might well acquire some sensory abilities. It would be very difficult to verify but many Scifi stories are based on that concept.
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
As Far As I Know.