Do you feel Violated?

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PsychoticEpisode

It is very dry in here today
Valued Senior Member
Might as well get some consensus.

1. Being exposed to religion at a young age, do you feel it a violation of your rights?
2. Do you think others have the right to expose you to religion at a young age?

Similar but deals with the rights of both parties.
 
PsychoticEpisode said:
Might as well get some consensus.

1. Being exposed to religion at a young age, do you feel it a violation of your rights?
2. Do you think others have the right to expose you to religion at a young age?

Similar but deals with the rights of both parties.
Click to expand...

Good questions. I don't think it's wrong to be given religious education as a young child (even if you don't like it, religion is a big part of society), along with studies in language, mathematics, science, history, etc. However it is wrong to force a child to live under the rules of a religion if they do not wish to. Such as making your kids go to church, just becuase you think they should. A child should be given the chance to mature and make their own minds up about religion (that goes for circumcision too!!!).
In that respect then it is a violition of your human rights, and no, not even your parents have that right.
My dad is a mason. Shortly after I turned eighteen he asked me if it was something I was interested in pursuing. We talked about it, I decided it wasn't for me. That's how it should be for all religions, give children time to make up their own informed decisions.
 
PsychoticEpisode said:
Might as well get some consensus.

1. Being exposed to religion at a young age, do you feel it a violation of your rights?
2. Do you think others have the right to expose you to religion at a young age?

Similar but deals with the rights of both parties.
Click to expand...
1. No.
2. Yes.

I consider religion a part of culture, so being exposed to it is as natural as being exposed to baseball and hot dogs. When you're old enough to make decisions for yourself, you can detach yourself from all three if you want.
 
There is a difference between being exposed and being indoctrinated.

Being taught about religion at a young age is healthy provided it is presented as speculative and not as baseless truth.
 
I was never old enough to question it and I was never taught it in such a way that it was clear it should be questionable. It was the one true religion. No way is an 8 year old child going to stand up in class and say "Miss, why are you teaching us this bullshit?".

Not to mention all the sectarian trouble that came from children who were divided into protestant and catholic schools. Children getting beaten up because they are forced to adopt a religious label... nice.

It's just strange how parents and teachers have the mistaken belief that they are actually doing a good thing by indoctrinating children. Better to believe in Adam and Eve than the evil concepts of atheist rationality, huh? :rolleyes:
 
That someone is exposed to religion at a young age is a tremendous priviledge.

Unfortunately many of us sinners can abuse our responsibility of educating the youth about the truth and ometimes there are bad feelings.

But even if someone had a bad experience learning the faith as a child, what a privilidge nevertheless compared to those who thirst for a knowledge that is entirely hidden from them.
 
1. Being exposed to religion at a young age, do you feel it a violation of your rights?
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Although "exposed" is quite ambiguous, I'll say yes.

2. Do you think others have the right to expose you to religion at a young age?
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No.

I remember when I went to get my daughter's birth registered. The woman said:

"name of the child?"
"Parents names/professions"
etc

Eventually she said:

"religion?"

I turned round and said: "I dunno, you'll have to ask her".

She looked at me as if I was weird, and I looked back rather confused - hardly believing it to be true that people can really say what their children are going to believe in before they're even a week old. Personally I find it absolutely disgusting. I guess it's just lucky for most of you that your parents didn't believe in leprechauns.

It gets worse.. If your parents are jewish, at 6 days old they violate you physically and chop a bit of your body off. This should be illegal, (other than for serious medical issues).

Not one of you here has the right to tell your children what to believe or not to believe. Period.
 
Lawdog,

That someone is exposed to religion at a young age is a tremendous priviledge.
Click to expand...
A very strange and bizarre perspective.

Unfortunately many of us sinners can abuse our responsibility of educating the youth about the truth and sometimes there are bad feelings.
Click to expand...
You probably had something more specific in mind but your statement was simply quite ambiguous. What did you mean?

If we have any responsibility towards teaching our youth about religion then it should be to tell them the whole story, of the thousands of religious fantasies throughout time and how they conflict with one another, how they create wars and intolerance, etc.

But even if someone had a bad experience learning the faith as a child, what a privilidge nevertheless compared to those who thirst for a knowledge that is entirely hidden from them.
Click to expand...
You seem to imply that indoctrination is somehow connected with teaching a truth. Clearly nothing could be further from the truth.
 
I think the whole issue of teaching religion publicly (in some parts of the world anyway) is completely blown out of proportion - like for instance imagine the uproar there would be if the gideons were as persistent as pornographic inbox spam - I guess the whole issue of the dangers of religion is a big joke because even by a casual observation of our society you can see that we are in danger of so many more important things - I mean is religion a contributing factor to divorce, drugs, teenage pregnancy, environmental pollution etc ?
Getting exposed to religion at a young age would barely be perceptable amongst all the barrage of sex drugs and violence that makes up our diet of daily life
 
I mean is religion a contributing factor to divorce, drugs, teenage pregnancy, environmental pollution etc ?
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Funny you should mention this...

It is shown that the more secular a society (ie percentage of atheists/non religious civilians), the higher the chances of the above social alements (and more) would be less frequent. If you want a source for this you will have to wait till I get home. Or you could do a search on this forum for something like "most americans will be nonchristian in 2035ce" as it is the second url in that thread.
 
lightgigantic said:
I mean is religion a contributing factor to divorce, drugs, teenage pregnancy, environmental pollution etc ?
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Indirectly it can be. I've heard it said by a man that runs a hunting lodge on his land that it's ok to breed animals to be shot, becasue God gave him the land and the animals on it to use as he sees fit. This could apply to natural resources, such as oil, gas, coal, etc where the planet is being torn apart for profit. But since God gave humans this planet then it's ok what we do with it.
Before you say it, I know I'm generalising, but these are words that I have heard spoken by individuals, be them the minority or not.
I could mention the AIDS issue, but we all know what the Catholic church has done there.
 
Thanks thepreacher:

http://www.pitzer.edu/academics/faculty/zuckerman/atheism.html

High levels of organic atheism are strongly correlated with high levels of societal health, such as low homicide rates, low poverty rates, low infant mortality rates, and low illiteracy rates, as well as high levels of educational attainment, per capita income, and gender equality. Most nations characterized by high degrees of individual and societal security have the highest rates of organic atheism, and conversely, nations characterized by low degrees of individual and societal security have the lowest rates of organic atheism.
 
Cris said:
Lawdog,

A very strange and bizarre perspective.

You probably had something more specific in mind but your statement was simply quite ambiguous. What did you mean?

If we have any responsibility towards teaching our youth about religion then it should be to tell them the whole story, of the thousands of religious fantasies throughout time and how they conflict with one another, how they create wars and intolerance, etc.
Click to expand...

Hello Cris. My perspective is practical: indoctrination of the youth is necessary. Since our culture has become diabolical, it is necessary to indoctrinate the youth concerning the content of the faith, the dogmas, doctrines, traditions, customs, history, as well as warn them concerning the numerous false doctrines that they may encounter in their life's journey, and inculcate in them a deep trust in the doctrinal judgements of the Church, the representative of God on earth.

Certainly such an indoctrination is beneficial. Even though a youth may not fully grasp the metaphysical realities of faith or the supernatural character of Grace, or in anyway understand what it means to believe in God, the concepts will always be available for reference. There will always be tools for distinguishing truth from falsehood.

in the end, the individual chooses through his own discernment and reasoning power what the truth must be. Therefore our indoctrination is not coercive in the final analysis, since as adults they are free to reject our teaching. We only supply the tools.
You seem to imply that indoctrination is somehow connected with teaching a truth. Clearly nothing could be further from the truth.
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The Church of previous eras understood the importance of indoctrinating the youth. Evil groups born of Satan also understand, such as communists and nazis; educate and indoctrinate the youth and you can transform the society. Since we in the west, being suicidal, have allowed socialist and fascists instead of the Church to educate our children, our society will die. It is now the choice of the Western world:Choose Catholicism (with all its apparent inconsistances) and worship God or you will all end up with the Terrorists ruling over you. It is very simple. As of old every corrupt civilization has been given this choice by mankind: convert or the barbarians will overwhelm you.
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baumgarten said:
I consider religion a part of culture, so being exposed to it is as natural as being exposed to baseball and hot dogs. When you're old enough to make decisions for yourself, you can detach yourself from all three if you want.
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Yes but baseball and hot dogs do not have quite the profound implications and convincing effect as religion. If you try a hot dog and say, i dont really like it, nobody is going to make u feel bad about it or try and convince you that the hot dog is good. If you feel unsure about religion, however, as i did when i was a kid, you stay quiet about it, because you feel like you should accept it, and sometimes your parents and sunday school teachers make you feel guilty or dirty if you convey doubt. So i kind of went with the flow and got confirmed and everything just to kind of finish waht i started for my family's sake. Luckily I was able to be honest about my opinion and express my doubt because my family is not very religious in the first place. My case is not very extreme, but i know that there are kids out there who are forced into religions by fear and environment, and that is not right. I think kids should decide for themselves if they want to learn about religion, because i think some kids naturally have or at least develop an interest in the spiritual and want to search for something that will fill a gap in their life. I think religion has many beneficial effects, but only when the follower truly believes and is not doing it because they have to. Religion should not be introduced until the kid is old enough to decide if he wants to explore it or not.
 
Lawdog, what planet are you living on? Your whole post demonstrates why people like you should not be feeding this bullshit to impressionable children. So thanks for stating my point.

Lawdog said:
My perspective is practical: indoctrination of the youth is necessary. Since our culture has become diabolical, it is necessary to indoctrinate the youth concerning the content of the faith, the dogmas, doctrines, traditions, customs, history, as well as warn them concerning the numerous false doctrines that they may encounter in their life's journey, and inculcate in them a deep trust in the doctrinal judgements of the Church, the representative of God on earth.
Click to expand...

Well first I would need to know what culture you are talking about. I'm guessing that since you are an idiotic Christian fundie, that you are American. 90-95% of Americans are already indoctrinated anyway as they are strongly religious. So where is the link between lack of indoctrination and decline of society?

If you will read my last post in this thread you will see my argument that the opposite is true, and that the more secularism advances, the healthier society becomes. This does not include America as America is not a secular country and their social ills can not be attributed to lack of religious faith.

Also it raises an eyebrow that you say children should be educated on false doctrines. Since creationism (as stated in Genesis) has been proven false on many counts, would you not therefor admit that your own doctrine is false? If you still think it is true, then you are in no position to have a say in our childrens education as you are an idiot.

ince we in the west, being suicidal, have allowed socialist and fascists instead of the Church to educate our children, our society will die. It is now the choice of the Western world:Choose Catholicism (with all its apparent inconsistances) and worship God or you will all end up with the Terrorists ruling over you.
Click to expand...

Isn't it funny when idiot Christians start ranting about how humanity will end if they don't convert to their faith. You are an ass, Lawdog.
 
Lawdog,

Oh man that is atrocious. Your view represents what I see as among the greatest evil that man can devise. While I'd like to think that ignoring your kind would mean you would fade away your assertions here enrage me so much that I feel an overwhelming need to seek out and actively oppose you and your kind at every opportunity.

You represent the very opposite of freedom and reasoned thought that should form the basis of human kind.
 
PsychoticEpisode said:
Might as well get some consensus.

1. Being exposed to religion at a young age, do you feel it a violation of your rights?
2. Do you think others have the right to expose you to religion at a young age?

Similar but deals with the rights of both parties.
Click to expand...
1. Yes
2. Absolutely not
 
An interesting perspective and worthy of argument. Please do not call us idiots, just becaiuse you disagree. It sounds bad and makes you look bad. You may call us evil if you want, but their have been many ingenious christians: shakespeare, newton, galileo, copernicus, etc.

I am a creationist. Evolution has not been proven. Nor will it be.
 
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