Do atheists indocrinate their children into their belief system?

[S.A.M.]

Is she having some sort of breakdown?

SAM, if you will not agree that atheism is the lack of a belief in god(s), then there is really no point in continuing this, or any other religious discussion with you. An absence of dogma isn't a rival form of dogma. The title of this thread is a troll.

You are welcome to stay out of this discussion. IMO, agnostcism is not a belief system, but atheism and especially militant atheism or anti-theist atheism most certainly is.

When you are targeting people because they believe something that you don't believe and neither of the party has evidence for their stand, they are both belief systems.

Besides all the atheists here are clearly defending their right not to believe in God. Its not equivalent to not being a stamp collector unless those guys are forming a club and wearing a T shirt and campaigning against stamp collectors.

 

[S.A.M.]

I challenge you to show where I have defended what you allege is a belief system. Answer honestly, or resign the debate.

You're in this thread aren't you?

What are you doing here?

It was an expressed curiosity. My daughter wanted to know the origins of the christmas tree. I could hardly lie and say it had something to do with jesus.. :bugeye:

So now your daughter believes that all Christians are celebrating Odin, is that right?

Nope. They've also never had flying lessons or been to an alien abductees anonymous meeting either. What's your point?

What about books? Has she read stories from the bible? Is she aware of why people go to church?

 

[Repo Man]

When you are targeting people because they believe something that you don't believe and neither of the party has evidence for their stand, they are both belief systems.

See Russell's teapot.

Besides all the atheists here are clearly defending their right not to believe in God. Its not equivalent to not being a stamp collector unless those guys are forming a club and wearing a T shirt and campaigning against stamp collectors.

All I see are people trying to correct your dishonest assertions.

 

[S.A.M.]

See Russell's teapot..

Interesting. Do you tell your children about Russels teapot, FSM, hypnotoad etc if they ask about religion?

All I see are people trying to correct your dishonest assertions

That they do not believe in God?

 

[SnakeLord]

So now your daughter believes that all Christians are celebrating Odin, is that right?

She didn't ask me about christians.

What about books? Has she read stories from the bible?

No, she hasn't read the Epic of Creation or the Book of wicca either. Whenever she expresses interest she can.

Of course as a responsible parent there are certain things I should keep out of her way until she is old enough. That includes 18 movies which generally have a lot less destruction and slaughter in them than the bible does.

Is she aware of why people go to church?

Her cousin goes to church. She is aware that her cousin goes to church because her parents force her to.

 

[spidergoat]

If they ask you, is there a God, what will you say?



There are theists worshipping Odin and Thor in your vicinity? Interesting.



Do any of them attend Sunday school? Go to church? Celebrate religious festivals (even ones pertaining to Odin and Thor?

I would say, "I don't think so, but so and so (name several of my friends) do.". I wouldn't want them to discriminate against someone for having a religion.

 

[(Q)]

Do atheists give their children exposure to theism?

Offer them the choice to believe in God?

Aside from the fact the author of this thread did not spell check the title, the title itself has no meaning and cannot be offered a valid response, other than "Codswallop."

As to a child's exposure to religion...

The first thing one must do is explain the term 'religion' to a child, which would mean having to explain blind faith in supernatural beings. At this point, Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny may very well be on their own.

Once the child begins to understand the difference between blind faith and critical thinking, they can begin reading the various doctrines of the various religions that try to explain their version of reality with their version of a god at the helm, providing the child with ample examples of blind faith.

They should attend the services of any of the faiths they wish to further explore, experiencing for themselves that which would entail being a member of that faith.

They should understand the historic past of those religions and what they contributed to mankind.

Once educated in the wide variety of faith based organizations, they can decide for themselves what purpose religion would serve in their lives.

Of course, they will also witness the cycle of indoctrination widely prescribed in organized religions.

 

[S.A.M.]

She didn't ask me about christians. Fortunately my daughter is a smart girl and thus wouldn't fall into the confusion that an explanation as to the origins of a tree equate to the whole reason a certain group of people have a celebration.

So she knows why Christians have a Christmas tree in their homes at Christmas? She did ask about the Christmas tree if I recall.

No, she hasn't read the Epic of Creation or the Book of wicca either. Whenever she expresses interest she can.

So she hasn't read stories from the Bible. Do you have it in the house? Or any other religious stories?

Of course as a responsible parent there are certain things I should keep out of her way until she is old enough. That includes 18 movies which generally have a lot less destruction and slaughter in them than the bible does.

Of course.

Her cousin goes to church. She is aware that her cousin goes to church because her parents force her to.

Is she aware why the rest of the people go to church? Does she know the concept of prayer, for instance? Or mass? Has she ever accompanied her cousin who is forced to go? Was she ever curious about why the cousin was forced to go?

I'm assuming she is very young.

What is her notion of Santa, the tooth fairy and the Easter bunny?

The first thing one must do is explain the term 'religion' to a child, which would mean having to explain blind faith in supernatural beings. At this point, Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny may very well be on their own.

Does this mean that you tell children there is no Santa etc.?

At what age?

As an aside, we had a tradition of Santa Claus even in my school, except no one told us about the North Pole and we always knew who the actual guy was (it was my PE teacher Lenny, sometimes, I forgot he was Santa and called him Lenny)

The Easter bunny just meant chocolate eggs. No tooth fairy

 

[Cris]

I have 3 daughters aged 21, 24, and 26. They have received very little religious education in schools and virtually none from me. We have discussed religion a number of times over the years when the issue has been raised occasionally but not in any depth.

Religion has been pretty much a non event in their lives. Whether they choose to look at religions any deeper if they ever feel a need is entirely up to them.

It is not that I have tried to indoctrinate them in either direction it is more that the issue has been irrelevant to our lives.

 

[Cris]

As an example - my youngest daughter had to attend an Easter dinner today with her boyfriend's family, he isnt religious but they are. A question was put to her as to what Easter meant. She didn't know.

I'm not sure whether to be pleased or dissapointed at her ignorance.

Our usual way to celebrate Easter is to consume lots of chocolate eggs. Easter is all about the chocolate.

 

[S.A.M.]

I have 3 daughters aged 21, 24, and 26. They have received very little religious education in schools and virtually none from me. We have discussed religion a number of times over the years when the issue has been raised occasionally but not in any depth.

Religion has been pretty much a non event in their lives. Whether they choose to look at religions any deeper if they ever feel a need is entirely up to them.

It is not that I have tried to indoctrinate them in either direction it is more that the issue has been irrelevant to our lives.

Were you brought up religious?

Do you celebrate any of the more prominent religious occasions like Christmas or Easter (I'm assuming you're in a Christian country but if you're not, feel free to change my question).

What is the attitude of your children towards other religious people?

edit: I see you partly answered my questions

And yes for me too (Easter = chocolate eggs) I never knew the significance of Easter until very late into my teens, even though I have had close Catholic friends all my life

 

[SnakeLord]

So she knows why Christians have a Christmas tree in their homes at Christmas?

Why do christians have a christmas tree in their homes? I never figured it out myself, did jesus tell them to?

So she hasn't read stories from the Bible. Do you have it in the house?

I have several - along with a collection of other ancient & modern texts including the Enuma Elish, the Epic of Gilgamesh, Marcus Aurelius' Meditations, the I Ching for beginners, Myths and Legends of the British Isles, Sex in History, NYPL Science Desk Reference, loads of Mark Twain and How to Grow Bonsai.

Is there a specific reason I should force one of those upon her?

Of course once again I think any responsible adult should recognise that the bible is not a book for children. It has more death, disease, war, violence, bad morality etc than any other book I have personally read or movie I've personally watched. In one instance a man gets struck down stone cold dead for spilling his semen on the floor instead of up his dead brothers wife. I'm sorry, you think this is good reading material for children?

Is she aware why the rest of the people go to church? Does she know the concept of prayer, for instance? Or mass? Has she ever accompanied her cousin who is forced to go? Was she ever curious about why the cousin was forced to go?

1) No more aware than why people go to Wiccan rites ceremonies. Doesn't seem like she really cares. Should I force it upon her?

2) What 'concept' is that then, "if you can't be bothered getting off your ass and working for things, just cup your hands and talk to the sky. It's like a giant universal lottery"? She expresses no interest whatsoever in religious matters. If and when she does she can learn about them from anyone and anywhere she chooses.

3) Why would she accompany her cousin? She has never expressed any interest in doing so.

4) Nope.

I'm assuming she is very young.

9

 

[scorpius]

Do atheists indocrinate their children into their belief system?

Do atheists give their children exposure to theism?

Offer them the choice to believe in God?

Any athiests with theist children here?

for one you need to get your facts straight:atheism is not a belief system

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

Atheism is the position that either affirms the nonexistence of gods[1] or rejects theism.[2] When defined more broadly, atheism is the absence of belief in deities,[3] alternatively called nontheism.[4] Although atheism is often equated with irreligion, some religious philosophies, such as secular theology and some varieties of Buddhism such as Theravada, either do not include belief in a personal god as a tenet of the religion, or actively teach nontheism.

Many self-described atheists are skeptical of all supernatural beings and cite a lack of empirical evidence for the existence of deities. Others argue for atheism on philosophical, social or historical grounds. Although many self-described atheists tend toward secular philosophies such as humanism[5] and naturalism,[6] there is no one ideology or set of behaviors to which all atheists adhere.[7]/quote

repeating the same old fallacy over and over won't make it true,no matter how much you wish it would.

so as you see theres nothing to be "indoctrinated" into!

 

[S.A.M.]

Why do christians have a christmas tree in their homes? I never figured it out myself, did jesus tell them to?

From what I have seen since babyhood, its a way to celebrate Christmas. I remember singing "Freddy the little fir tree" in kindergarten.

I have several - along with a collection of other ancient & modern texts including the Enuma Elish, the Epic of Gilgamesh, Marcus Aurelius' Meditations, the I Ching for beginners, Myths and Legends of the British Isles, Sex in History, NYPL Science Desk Reference, loads of Mark Twain and How to Grow Bonsai.

Is there a specific reason I should force one of those upon her?

So she is unaware of the general Bible stories for children as well. Even I read those - alongwith the Arabian Nights, Russian fairy tales, Panchatantra, Amar Chitra Katha stories from the Ramayana, Mahabharata and Bhagvad Gita as well as tales of the Bodhisattva (Buddha) also known as the Jataka Tales.

Of course once again I think any responsible adult should recognise that the bible is not a book for children. It has more death, disease, war, violence, bad morality etc than any other book I have personally read or movie I've personally watched. In one instance a man gets struck down stone cold dead for spilling his semen on the floor instead of up his dead brothers wife. I'm sorry, you think this is good reading material for children?

I don't think they have the 18+ stuff in the Bible stories for children. I would have remembered reading them.

1) No more aware than why people go to Wiccan rites ceremonies. Doesn't seem like she really cares. Should I force it upon her?

2) What 'concept' is that then, "if you can't be bothered getting off your ass and working for things, just cup your hands and talk to the sky. It's like a giant universal lottery"? She expresses no interest whatsoever in religious matters. If and when she does she can learn about them from anyone and anywhere she chooses.

3) Why would she accompany her cousin? She has never expressed any interest in doing so.

4) Nope.

Curious, so she knows her cousin is forced to go to church but she knows nothing about prayer or mass or what a religious service if. And has never expressed an interest in any of it. Even my friends 4 year old asks more questions than that.

9

I see.

 

[q0101]

I would tell my children that theism is a psychiatric disorder, and religion is a tool that alpha males use to control people. I would also tell my children to respect other people’s beliefs because intolerance is not a cure for the psychiatric disorder. I believe that corrupting a child’s mind with religion is one of the worse things parent can do. My family corrupted my mind with Christian beliefs when I was a child and it really affected my life in a negative way. An ideology that is based on logic, critical thinking, and the continuous pursuit of knowledge is the only belief system that people need.

 

[Cris]

SAM,

Were you brought up religious?

Not really. My parents never expressed any strong views although my father thought it was all nonsense. But his view was based on his experience as an artilliryman in WWII when he saw too many fellow soldiers on their knees during battle praying rather than firing their guns. He simply saw them as cowards and henceforth connected religion with that negative characteristic. Other than that religion played no part in their lives except at weddings and funerals.

But I attended British schools for my entire school life and the law then was that every child must engage in daily worship and receive regular religious instruction. So while I was exposed to a lot of Christian information and ceremony I can't say it ever meant much to me except to make me question what religion was all about.

Do you celebrate any of the more prominent religious occasions like Christmas or Easter (I'm assuming you're in a Christian country but if you're not, feel free to change my question).

Raised in the UK but have been a permanent USA resident since 1996. Christmases have always been about giving presents and big meals. Religious issues never entered such occasions. And Easter was all about buying chocolate eggs and more big meals. The religious connotations never entered into those occasions.

I took part in those because of the traditions of where I lived. Left to myself they would be non events. Like this weekend for example - I am barely aware it is Easter - just another regular day.

What is the attitude of your children towards other religious people?

From what I have observed it is one of caution, suspicion, and then get some distance.

 

[(Q)]

I would also tell my children to respect other people’s beliefs because intolerance is not a cure for the psychiatric disorder. I believe that corrupting a child’s mind with religion is one of the worse things parent can do. My family corrupted my mind with Christian beliefs when I was a child and it really affected my life in a negative way.

While I would agree with your post, there does not necessarily have to be an intolerance to ones beliefs as you say, as theists beliefs are fairy tales and can be ignored for the most part. But, there certainly should be an intolerance to the corruption of a child's mind and the abuse from indoctrination with these fairy tales, as your own experiences will attest.

Great post, btw. :bravo:

 

[SnakeLord]

From what I have seen since babyhood, its a way to celebrate Christmas.

Certainly but that's not really what you asked of me, (So she knows why Christians have a Christmas tree in their homes at Christmas?). However if you deem it sufficient then I'll just say "dunno, it's just a way to celebrate christmas". That'll teach her loads no doubt.. :bugeye:

So she is unaware of the general Bible stories for children as well

Bible stories for children? yahweh hands out free teddy bears instead of plagues? But no, should I glue it to her face or what? And why do you keep bringing up the bible instead of some other random piece of writing? Oh yes, "lots of people believe in it". Should I also force her to read the local Labour voting campaign leaflet as well as lots of people vote Labour?

I don't think they have the 18+ stuff in the Bible stories for children. I would have remembered reading them

So they then miss out the negative thus completely defeating the purpose of the story and trying to delude children into having a positive impression where, if the story was told honestly, they might not have one?

Curious, so she knows her cousin is forced to go to church but she knows nothing about prayer or mass or what a religious service if

She knows one of her 'uncles' is jewish but she doesn't know what a circumcised penis is. What's your point?

And has never expressed an interest in any of it. Even my friends 4 year old asks more questions than that.

Now now, do not be a ninny. She asks many many questions, why must they be religious based question if they are to be considered questions? Must my daughter express an interest in religious matters? Is there a reason my daughter must ask religious based question as opposed to other questions? Hmmmm...... :bugeye:

 

[S.A.M.]

Certainly but that's not really what you asked of me, (So she knows why Christians have a Christmas tree in their homes at Christmas?). However if you deem it sufficient then I'll just say "dunno, it's just a way to celebrate christmas". That'll teach her loads no doubt.. :bugeye:

I just find it curious that you neglected to mention it. Considering the current tradition of Christmas trees.

Bible stories for children? yahweh hands out free teddy bears instead of plagues? But no, should I glue it to her face or what? And why do you keep bringing up the bible instead of some other random piece of writing? Oh yes, "lots of people believe in it". Should I also force her to read the local Labour voting campaign leaflet as well as lots of people vote Labour?

Because you're English. I would say Quran, but I have yet to meet an athiest who has read it himself, or the Panchatantra or the Jataka Tales or even comics like Amar Chitra Katha. I'm assuming not many athiests in England (of the white variety) have read the Mahabharata or the Bhagvad Gita. (I have read all of the above and have a copy of the King James Bible and the Bhagvad Gita on my shelf, due to my familiarity with the stories from childhood)

So they then miss out the negative thus completely defeating the purpose of the story and trying to delude children into having a positive impression where, if the story was told honestly, they might not have one?

[p/s sec, hit submit by accident.. finishing it now..]

Actually it seems from this thread that most athiest's children are simply oblivious of a vast store of cultural knowledge and grow up in a cultural vacuum.

She knows one of her 'uncles' is jewish but she doesn't know what a circumcised penis is. What's your point?

Does she know what "Jewish" is? What Christian is?

Now now, do not be a ninny. She asks many many questions, why must they be religious based question if they are to be considered questions? Must my daughter express an interest in religious matters? Is there a reason my daughter must ask religious based question as opposed to other questions? Hmmmm......

Apparently not.

 

[SnakeLord]

I just find it curious that you neglected to mention it.

Neglected to mention what?? That people, be they religious or not, seem to like the idea of christmas trees, santa claus, present giving and turkey dinner? I mentioned it.

Considering the current tradition of Christmas trees

Which is what exactly? That pretty much everyone in the west buys a tree irregardless of religious beliefs?

Because you're English. I would say Quran, but I have yet to meet an athiest who has read it himself, or the Panchatantra or the Jataka Tales or even comics like Amar Chitra Katha.

She has expressed no interest in reading them. I would suggest to you Twain's Connecticut Yankee, How to Grow Bonsai and Myths and Legends of the British Isles. If you have no interest in reading them what should I do about it? Beat you around the head with a stick?

I'm assuming not many athiests in England (of the white variety) have read the Mahabharata or the Bhagvad Gita.

Who cares? I'm assuming that not many muslims in Iraq have read Mark Twains Huckleberry Finn. What's your point?

Actually it seems from this thread that most athiest's children are simply oblivious of a vast store of cultural knowledge and grow up in a cultural vacuum.

Oh you do talk a load of old bollocks.