Do animals have souls?

[Dr Lou Natic]

Originally posted by brainuniverse
I can not answer about the soul question, but if soul is about consciensnous, then as far as scientists are concerned, other then humans, only some apes and perhaps daulphins have the capability of self-reflectivness, that means that the majority of other animals can't even percieve their own existance. The mirror trick is the best avelable to study self-reflectivness.

And you have faith in that?
Hell, You have faith in humans?
I sure as hell don't.
It seems to me you have just done the equivalent of spouting bible references.
If something can't notice itself in the mirror all that means is it can't notice itself in the mirror. Maybe it doesn't care, testing animals by seeing if they can do what we do is full of flaws. We could just as soon say people aren't concious because they can't make a pearl in their mouths, its irrelevent.
Of course we know humans are concious because we are humans, we can't be sure about animals so at this stage its best to admit we don't know or give them the benefit of the doubt.
Drastic assumptions are a terrible thing, I would have thought we had learned that lesson by now

 

[brainuniverse]

Originally posted by Dr Lou Natic
And you have faith in that?
Hell, You have faith in humans?
I sure as hell don't.
It seems to me you have just done the equivalent of spouting bible references.
If something can't notice itself in the mirror all that means is it can't notice itself in the mirror. Maybe it doesn't care, testing animals by seeing if they can do what we do is full of flaws. We could just as soon say people aren't concious because they can't make a pearl in their mouths, its irrelevent.
Of course we know humans are concious because we are humans, we can't be sure about animals so at this stage its best to admit we don't know or give them the benefit of the doubt.
Drastic assumptions are a terrible thing, I would have thought we had learned that lesson by now

Recognising yourself in the mirror as an entity is more just then a little thing, it demonstrate that you are conscient of your existance, you are self-reflective. Maybe you are right, maybe many and many animals have the capability of consciensness, still humans are meore developped then any more animals on earth, we try to understand, and again only few apes and perhaps the daulphan have this need to understand... we come to the start back again.

 

[Jenyar]

Just for interest's sake - are any other species capable of abstract thought, or irrational thought for that matter?

I just can't imagine any other sentient being say to itself "I think, therefore I am"...

Although I wouldn't put it beyond one or two cats.

 

[firingseeds]

the rhino

hi.
went to this wildlife park where they had recently acquired a bull rhino. we were there on the bus watching it in the nearby distance. he was sitting with his rear toward us and was totally ignoring us. people on the bus were taking pictures and talking animately, and so forth. i said to my companion, watch this. i tapped quietly, and he, WITH UTTER DISTAIN, reluctantly turned his head to look.
animals have spirit, too; same as human.

 

[everneo]

Originally posted by Jenyar
Just for interest's sake - are any other species capable of abstract thought, or irrational thought for that matter?

I just can't imagine any other sentient being say to itself "I think, therefore I am"...

Although I wouldn't put it beyond one or two cats.

Those who are in mental asylums with serious mental illness don't seem to think "i think therefore i am".

Also those people who are in coma stage show no indication of thinking.

Those human foetus don't seem to think so.

When we are in deep sleep do we think consciously..?

Do all the above, have soul..? or not..?

 

[Dr Lou Natic]

What the hell does "I think therefore I am" mean anyway? Talk about an overrated philosophy.
Everything happens to be, it doesn't make a lick of difference if it mutters that cheesy phrase in its mind or not. Hell I never have, I guess I am ...not?

 

[firingseeds]

hahahaHAHAHAhahahahaha....

 

[Jenyar]

Yes - no animal would be that irrational, and to say it in Latin, too! Leave it to Rene Descartes, the ape...

Cogito, ergo sum

 

[Jenyar]

Originally posted by everneo
Those who are in mental asylums with serious mental illness don't seem to think "i think therefore i am".

Also those people who are in coma stage show no indication of thinking.

Those human foetus don't seem to think so.

When we are in deep sleep do we think consciously..?

Do all the above, have soul..? or not..?

Oh, I didn't mean that you stopped being human the moment that you stopped thinking those words. We know they are/will be/were homo sapiens - capable of existential doubt...

By the way, having a soul would be independent of your actual state of existence, since it is not bound by your physical body and is nothing if not immortal. So it is irrelevant in what state thebody is in whether it has a soul or not.

 

[atheroy]

i can't say what a "soul" is, but to me it is conscious thought and awareness. i think every mammal has a "soul" and most animals do too (varying on the complexity of the organism- for example gold fish, they only perceive 3 seconds of time before they perceive the next 3, thats not a great helping of the "soul" thing i reckon). we are not the only speices to exhibit culture, tactical awareness and other developed systems of conscious thought. did you know that the vampire bat lives in a group and if they happen not to find something to suck on one night, a buddy who did eat will regurgitate(sp) blood for the one who didn't. this sharing is remembered and so favours have to be recognised and exchanged. if one bat goes without food then gets some help that he doesn't repay, he then gets kicked out of the group. this is observed behaviour. humans aren't the only ones to show generousity(sp) or selflessness. so i think it would be niave to think that humans are the only animals with a "soul".

For perspective, a sperm whales brain is three times the size of a humans, so clearly we are not equiped with the #1 most powerfull thinking machine on the planet. So I'm sure some eccentric sperm whales would ponder if humans have souls)

size is not all that counts. the brain becomes more complex and powerful as the folds in the brain increase. the reason humas have the most powerful brain is because it is highly folded and therefore more capable and complex than any other organism's brain. so even though the sperm whale's brain is relatively three trimes bigger than ours, ours is still " better"