Discus Naturalistic Pantheism

H

Harro

Registered Senior Member
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalistic_pantheism
Naturalistic Pantheism is a form of pantheism that holds that the universe, although unconscious and non-sentient as a whole, behaves as a single, interconnected, and solely natural substance. Accordingly, Nature is seen as being what religions call "God" only in a non-traditional, impersonal sense, where the terms Nature and God are synonymous. Therefore, naturalistic pantheism is also known as "impersonal pantheism" and "impersonal absolutism," and does not posit any form of supernatural belief.

Good bye Atheism, good ridence Chistianisty , Jewdaism and Islam. Push over Hindu and Buddism.

I found what to call myself if any one asks me :) Im a Naturalistic Pantheist. Ive had these views for a long time but only now have discovered im not the first to have these idea's and it even has a name.
I can now say "God bless you and may you find prosperity, do whats good for yourself, good for all and whats good for all of the universe" :D

Discus please
 
A druid was a member of the priestly and learned class in the ancient Celtic societies of Western Europe, Britain and Ireland. They were suppressed by the Roman government and disappeared from the written record by the second century CE. Druids combined the duties of priest, judge, scholar, and teacher.[1] Little contemporary evidence for them exists, and thus little can be said of them with assurance, but they continued to feature prominently in later Irish myth and literature.[2]

The earliest record of the name druidae (Δρυΐδαι) is reported from a lost work of the Greek doxographer Sotion of Alexandria (early second century BCE), who was cited by Diogenes Laertius in the third century CE.[3]

The Celtic communities that Druids served were polytheistic. They also show signs of animism, in their reverence for various aspects of the natural world, such as the land, sea and sky,[4] and their veneration of other aspects of nature, such as sacred trees and groves (the oak and hazel were particularly revered), tops of hills, streams, lakes and plants such as the mistletoe.[5] Fire was regarded as a symbol of several divinities and was associated with cleansing. Purported ritual killing and human sacrifice were aspects of druidic culture that shocked classical writers.[6]

http://www.google.com/url?sa=U&star.../Druid&usg=AFQjCNGIMCdrqPhl9ygZnGReHR7XNhj87Q
 
spidergoat said:
That is practically the same thing as atheism. It also resembles Taoism.
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Atheism is the belief in no god or no existence of any god.

Judaism/Christianity and Islamic religions is the belief in the most powerful god conscience matter (mankind) can imagine (godly ordained). That’s why they always fight/argue, my god is more powerful then your god therefore my gods’ morals are more divine then yours. Unchecked it aims for supremacy in the name of their god and persecution to unbelievers the evil ones, religious domination (in god) leads to religious slavery (in god). IMHO

Both are extreme views and quite natural phenomena. Taoism is a more balanced view? Ying and Yang. So yes Naturalistic Pantheism does resemble Taoism.

Naturalistic Pantheism is the belief that god is everything.
You can think of it as the body of god or each part is part of the whole. Knowledge is a greater understanding of god/nature.
 
Because Pantheism holds that the cosmos, taken or conceived of as a whole, is synonymous with God.
 
Pantheim isnt just a belief but also about the lifstyle choices.

http://www.pantheist.net/lifeways.htm
quote from a pantheist website

A dedication to living an ethical life-style (known in many religions as the Way of Works) is one of the most important modes of religious experience for the modern Pantheist. doing some good in the world is properly understood to mean not merely to safeguard the well-being of neighbors, community, and humanity at large, but also to protect the natural environment upon which all living things depend. This works in reverse, too: To be an enviromentalist is to have concern not only for the planet but for all of mankind and all living things.

Reverent behavior toward the earth necessitates a personal commitment toward living in greater harmony with the biosphere.


http://www.pantheist.net/society/pantheist_world_view.html
Awsome site, explains Pantheim way better than I ever could.
 
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Organic Belief.
A key part of Pantheist belief is that it is not absolute in terms of unchangeable truths. It very much lends itself to the scientific process to allow openness and to new insights.

Faith in a belief can lead religious fundamentalists seeking regression to an imaginary time when everything was unchanging and absolute. The extremists react against progressive ideas not only because it may conflict with doctrine but also fear change itself.

The simple fact of life is that beliefs can change. Asking some one to have faith in a belief should be unacceptable, especially in religion. Tomorrow we may not believe the same things we did the day before because we can lean things about our surroundings and ourselves.

Instead of asking a person to adhere to strict creeds and doctrine a Pantheist would ask you to practice mindful living. How freeing it is to not have to be asked to have faith in any idea. Pantheist are mindful not because fear to avoid eternal suffering or because the hope of entering heaven an eternal nirvana. They do it because it brings joy and inspiration right here now, in this world, and by doing so it ultimately helps to make the world a better place.
 
Harro
Pantheism holds that the cosmos, taken or conceived of as a whole, is synonymous with God.
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Varieties of pantheism

This article distinguishes between three divergent groups of pantheists:

* Classical pantheism, which is expressed in the immanent God of Kabalistic Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Monism, neopaganism, and the New Age, generally viewing God in either a personal or cosmic manner.

* Biblical pantheism, which is expressed in the writings of the Bible with the understanding of personification linguistics as a cultural communication idiom in Hebrew language. [Isa 55:12] [Acts 17:28]

* Naturalistic pantheism, based on the relatively recent views of Baruch Spinoza (who may have been influenced by Biblical pantheism) and John Toland (who coined the term "pantheism"), as well as contemporary influences.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheism
 
Pantheism \Pan” the*ism\, n. [Pan- + theism.]
Any doctrine, philosophy, or religious practice that holds universe [cosmos], taken or conceived of as the totality of forces and/or matter, is synonymous with the theological principle of God.

Naturalism is a metaphysical theory that holds that all phenomena can be explained mechanically in terms of natural causes and laws. Naturalism posits that the universe is indifferent to human needs and desires, As opposed to any supernatural forces.

swarm said:
So you say its synonymous "god."

What's "god?"
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Hi Swarm, its hard to say with out sounding like I’m preaching but ill try and put it in my perspective please note I’ve come from an Christian background with some in site to Catholic, Jehovah Witness, Born Again Christian and United Kingdom churches. I’ve read some but not very much about Mohammad’ life and Islam. I must admit I don’t know much about eastern philosophy. I’ve always been a sceptic even taking on Atheism as my belief because I was never attracted to any mainstream religions they seemed sterile, self-contradicting, unsceintific and unknowingly or knowing teach prejudice, prooved to lead to violence and breed extreemists. That’s not to say all do, some are the loveliest people I’ve ever meet.
I hope Pantheism wont lead to extreme environmentalist blowing up oil rigs.
I’ve only discovered and converted to Pantheism the day I started this topic so still learning.

Keeping it real.
Often among sceptics of Naturalistic Pantheism, one gets asked the question. Aren’t you just a fancy name for Atheism when you equate the cosmos and all within it synonymous to god and no need for the supernatural? My answer to that is No.

Everything is constantly being created and evolving all the time and even destroyed. Some things that existed in the past don’t exist now and some things that don't exist now will exist in the future. Not those things spontaneously exist from nothing it just changes form and can be explained scientifically. It's always changing so to define what’s god is an impossible proposition. So I say I don’t know and say no one does my premise is god is real and is found in every one, everything and the universe with out supernatural forces or otherworldly places or intervention.

Naturalistic Pantheism (NP) says synonymous of God because it’s not the same understanding of god in the same way as mainstream theology, which says God is most often conceived of as the supernatural creator and overseer of the universe.

The best way I can think of explaining it is by looking at genesis through the lens of NP religion. From a NP perspective that God is the cosmos and everything it contains can be explained naturally with out superstition, magic and supernatural forces. Firstly you need to get the context in which the story of genesis was conceived. The story would have been told orally possibly passed down generations before it was penned to paper maybe 5000years ago? Telling the tale of the origins of creation, Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, deception and falling from grace. So from NP point of view I could explain a new interpretation while keeping it real and hopefully maintain the beauty of the story.

The Cosmo’s creates and evolves. This is the nature of everything, from energy and matter to galaxies, stars and planets.
In time our solar system evolved to exist in the form of our sun and the earth. With out the universe and what’s with in, none would be possible.
Just like the workings of the universe organisms evolved as well, and it happened on earth.
Adam is also a symbol of first Homo sapiens that have our origins via evolution; as such we come from the earth and are made of matter. To NP we are like everything else in the universe and all with in, which metaphorically gave birth to all life, made of the same stuff the universe is made of.
The Earth, sacred to NP, was ideal for Mankind. Plants and animals for food, oxygen to breath, water to drink and warmth from the sun, materials for tools and shelter. All made possible because the universe and all within, the Garden of Eden.
The story of Adam is similar to a child and his parents. To a child your parents are, they are the provider and nurturer. Just as the earth provides for us and the universe as a whole is its place to make it possible.
As a child grows up they loose their innocence and as such should become mindful, productive and intelligent human beings. The story is about becoming an adult finding a partner and moving away from your parents. Being mindful required you to respect your parents and in this case Adam was mislead by Eve, his partner, who was deceived. So now Adam and Eve where cast out of home, had to work for food and provide a home for there own family. A story not unlike most peoples family.

Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil because of a deceiver. Symbolically this is a duality when children grow up and Homo sapiens as a whole become wise to right and wrong and the ability to make these judgment calls are within all humans. That is to have a conscious, to be mindful of the earth, nature and of others. Not to be lead astray by temptations that bring harm to the environment, to others sensibilities or intentionally harm others. In other words we should use knowledge and science for the betterment of mankind and not it’s destruction.

While a condensed version it’s a very powerful story with is the roots of humanity and morals.
As with any fairy tale there’s a moral to the story. I’ve retold the story while keeping it real, no superstition and from this perspective you can conceive god as being in every one, every thing and the cosmos as a whole. When you look at the world this way you get an in site to the importance of humans to take responsibility and look after the plants, animals and each other. The universe or a god isn’t going to just magically make it happen although inevitably as with anything in the universe it will evolve the sun will burn out and the earth will be no more, it’s remanence may in the eons of time be part of another structure in the universe. From Naturalistic Pantheist perspective there is no savoir to pull us out of the shit. Heaven and Hell is attainable on earth, as a species, not as an individual but every individual has some responsibility. No need for the supernatural or other worldly place.
We have maybe billions of years to try and maintain the Garden of Eden that sustains life on earth and quite possibly possess technology to inhabit the rest of the heavens. As with the organic changing nature of everything, morals evolve there not set in stone and today environmental concerns are more important than ever.

Excerpt from Monism by Ernst Haeckel

“Pantheism teaches that God and the world are one. The idea of God is identical with that of nature or substance.”
“It follows necessarily that pantheism is the world-system of the modern scientist.”

Excerpt from The Practice of Pantheist Mindfulness by Harold W. Wood, Jr.

“Within NP is the concept of mindful living. That is to go out and experience nature, instead of a prayer 5 times a day a NP could if they so choose to practice there religion by engaging with a plant, an animal, the earth, the sky and/or another human being. Really seeing what it’s all about, interacting with it and basically just being mindful. It could be as much as hugging a loved one or giving attention to a pet its your choise.
Mindful living isn’t done because of fear, or to avoid suffering, or because of the hope of going to Heaven or entering a state of Nirvana when we die. We do it because it brings joy and inspiration right here now, in this world, and by so doing it ultimately helps to make the world a better place.”

“If you want to learn more about NP view of god look at nature. Rather than indoor philosophy found in the book and temples. You instead have to go outside. A tree or a bird on the wing will give you a better sermon than any person.”

Regarding Perfection By Carl:

“The products of nature, including Homo sapiens, appear to us to include lots of flaws. But the possibility and actualisation of flaws is essential. Evolution would not, could not, function without flaws and flaw potential. Without flaw potential, there would be no yinyang. In other words, flaws are a part natures perfect system.

Nature strives to improve, strives for perfection. And we humans mirror that innate aspect of nature. Look at our technology. Automobiles, for example: in the early part of the 20th century, cars broke down frequently and needed near daily maintenance. Now cars are faster, safer, quieter, more comfortable, need little maintenance, and last far longer than their predecessors. The story is similar in practically all fields of technology.

Flaw potential as a part of nature's perfect system is one of the great paradoxes of life.”
 
As near as I can tell you are trying to make the term "god" synonymous with Nature. I feel this is misleading in that it is not the common usage of god which inevitably involves the supernatural and almost always implies agency and worship.

Also except for making your position more confusing, saying "god" doesn't bring anything with it that would not be there if you said Nature since you purposefully exclude all unnatural aspects to this "god."
 
Harro said:
Often among sceptics of Naturalistic Pantheism, one gets asked the question. Aren’t you just a fancy name for Atheism when you equate the cosmos and all within it synonymous to god and no need for the supernatural? My answer to that is No.

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I’ve come to revaluate my position on Naturalistic Pantheism be equated with Atheism. Changing my answer from no to a “yes with a clause”

NP=Atheist + clause

Clause = a feeling or a need to connect with the earth where life thrives, the sun that gives warmth and light and the universe that makes it all possible.
 
swarm said:
As near as I can tell you are trying to make the term "god" synonymous with Nature. I feel this is misleading in that it is not the common usage of god which inevitably involves the supernatural and almost always implies agency and worship.

Also except for making your position more confusing, saying "god" doesn't bring anything with it that would not be there if you said Nature since you purposefully exclude all unnatural aspects to this "god."
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Yes I agree using the term god is misleading in this day and age. But I'm stealing the term back to its original purpose when the earth and heavens where sacred.

Just like reclaiming the day of 25th of December where in the northern hemisphere the sun is metaphorically reborn. When the sun ends its shortest days for 3days, is resurrected and starts its transit to longer day light hours. Which Bible writers stole with lies as the birth of Jesus Christ the SUN of god.
 
The earth and heavens can be sacred with out any need for the term god.

The winter solstice isn't Dec 25th. It doesn't "ends its shortest days for 3days." There is one specific day for the change from shorter days to longer days and the ancients knew all about it.

And just because "son" and "sun" are homonyms in English doesn't mean they are in any of the biblical languages (they aren't).

Just because lot's of people have sun gods doesn't mean they are inter related or that JC is based on one. His myth actuall tracks Mythras better than the local sun god myths. But there are a lot of Jesus like myths in that area of the world. It was a very popular story that some one did a Jewish retread of.
 
The winter solstice occurs at the instant when the Sun's position in the sky is at its greatest angular distance on the other side of the equatorial plane from the observer. Depending on the shift of the calendar, the event of the winter solstice occurs some time between December 20 and December 23 each year in the northern hemisphere, and between June 20 and June 23 in the southern hemisphere, during either the shortest day or the longest night of the year, which is not to be confused with the darkest day or night or the day with the earliest sunset or latest sunrise. Though the Winter Solstice lasts an instant, the term is also colloquially used to refer to the full 24-hour period.

Worldwide, interpretation of the event has varied from culture to culture, but most cultures have held a recognition of rebirth, involving holidays, festivals, gatherings, rituals or other celebrations around that time.[2]

The seasonal significance of the Winter Solstice is varied, since it is sometimes said to astronomically mark either the beginning or middle of a hemisphere's Winter. Winter is a subjective term, so there is no scientifically established beginning or middle of winter but the Winter Solstice itself is clearly defined within a second.

The word solstice derives from Latin sol (sun) and sistere (to stand still), Winter Solstice meaning Sun standstill in winter.

Yeah your right It seems I was off by a few days, I was exagerating the word sun and son becasue the sun was commonally reviered as a god, and Jesus was the son of god.

would you rather thank the sun for giving the baby seed a chance to grow and feed your mouth.

Or thank a man of miracles, for the central establishment of moral authority

Who's the real saviour here?
 
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thanks for adding the wiki site, I should have.

Nothing wrong with thinking neither. You have free will to choose what you believe from your experiences in life. Thats what being human is all about.

I just try to give a natural perpective in how god is refelected in nature and thats what makes god real (to me at least). I dont need faith in a supernatural magic god when I believe in a real god.

The problem is where you draw the line between what is real and what is not, its a grey area becasue one could argue that imagination is real. Therefor is that god also?

Also beliefs have the ability to change when you accuire new knowledge. Some might believe something you know may be set in stone but over time that stone can be a fluid as the water.
 
how god is refelected in nature
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I thought you were saying god is nature?

Personally I don't believe in believing in gods. Makes not the least sense to me. I don't need to believe in rocks, why do I need to believe in gods?

God as just a concept of just a flight of fantasy is no big deal. Helps many a weak plot line along. If only there weren't so many people who want to pretend their fantasies are real.
 
Harro said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalistic_pantheism
Naturalistic Pantheism is a form of pantheism that holds that the universe, although unconscious and non-sentient as a whole, behaves as a single, interconnected, and solely natural substance. Accordingly, Nature is seen as being what religions call "God" only in a non-traditional, impersonal sense, where the terms Nature and God are synonymous. Therefore, naturalistic pantheism is also known as "impersonal pantheism" and "impersonal absolutism," and does not posit any form of supernatural belief.

Good bye Atheism, good ridence Chistianisty , Jewdaism and Islam. Push over Hindu and Buddism.

I found what to call myself if any one asks me :) Im a Naturalistic Pantheist. Ive had these views for a long time but only now have discovered im not the first to have these idea's and it even has a name.
I can now say "God bless you and may you find prosperity, do whats good for yourself, good for all and whats good for all of the universe" :D

Discus please
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I am an atheist and this fits me like a glove. I think it's basically atheism.
 
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