Did Jesus really resurrected?

yaracuy said:
If the dent is Paul or Saul , Nicodemus I agree , many were labor or fisherman , Some events which take place people don,t run and write up and think this is for posterity. I did not write up about my grandfather that he was in the Austro-Hungarian war and what he did and how many years he served there, this was passed to me by word of mouth
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Did your grandfather rise from the dead? I suspect if he had, someone would've written about it.
 
Religious people believe your grandfather rose from the dead?
What "more" is there?
 
yaracuy said:
Tell me Is there some evidence that Attila the Hun existed ?
Is there any evidence Anibal the son of Amilkar existed ?
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Is there any evidence that Zeus existed?

Is there any evidence that Osiris existed?

Or Demeter? Kore? Hercules? Xenu? Bachus? the Great Mother?

The ancient world (and the modern) is filled with cults and religions based on mythical beings.

Just like Jesus.


Kapyong
 
yaracuy said:
Would you believe Jewish wars by Josephus , there is a mentioning , but of course once a person have his mind made up . that it .:)
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Josephus has been tampered with by Christians - it is either a complete forgery, (or a corrupted original about who knows what.)

But Christians keep bringin this forgery up as if it proves something. The 'best evidence' for Jesus - and it's suspect.



K.
 
yaracuy said:
You are beating around the bush ,
At that time they did not have computers, and many people were not literate and some who was interested and had the knowledge to write would write.
O perhaps you would like that Genesis in the bible would talk about atoms putting togettter and make molecules , then enzymes then make RNA, and so on. And in out thine we would take to our lab and very if it is true.:eek:
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What?

The issue is that G.Mark was written around 70CE, easy to predict something that was HAPPENING at the time.

No prophecy there at all.

Why did you suddenly change the subject to science in the Bible?



K.
 
yaracuy said:
I come from a world were not every event is written down but passed down by from parents to children and eventually it becomes tradition , I hope you understand my point
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But the Christian oral tradition FAILED.

They FAILED to remember the Lord's Prayer - there are many different versions in the MSS.

They even FAILED to remember the names of the disciples / apostles - the lists do NOT match. So now we have nonsense like Simon called Peter whose name is George, but everyone calls him Stephen.


K.
 
yaracuy said:
We focus our life on the teaching of Jesus which are no different from the 10 commandments .
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What teaching of Jesus?
In fact we have a set of anonymous books will tell DIFFERENT stories!

Do YOU believe the Hindu books about Krishna?
No way.

Do YOU believe the Scientology books about Xenu ?
No way.

Do YOU believe the Theosophy books about the Masters?
No way.

But when it comes to religion passed on from you family and friends etc. - suddenly you go all gullible.


K.
 
Gday all,

yaracuy said:
I see You are asking . There is no evidence written when Jesus rose , did not write down , but let say 30 years later it war written down.
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Paul wrote maybe 30 years later - but he talks about a spiritual Christ - nothing historical there.

The Gospels are claimed to have been written around 70CE - but guess what?

No Christian shows knowledge of the Gospels until mid 2nd century or so.

And notably - no Christian shows knowledge of the Gospel stories such as the Empty Tomb until about the same time.

It's quite clear - the Gospels and their stories were NOT part of the original Christian beliefs.

Have a look at this chronology of who mentioned the EMpty Tomb :

50s
Paul - NO empty tomb

60s
Hebrews - NO empty tomb

80s
Colossians - NO empty tomb
1 John - NO empty tomb
James - NO empty tomb

90s
Ephesians - NO empty tomb
2 Thess. - NO empty tomb
1 Peter - NO empty tomb
1 Clement - NO empty tomb
Revelation - NO empty tomb

100s
The Didakhe - NO empty tomb
Jude - NO empty tomb

110s
Barnabas - NO empty tomb

120s
2 John - NO empty tomb
3 John - NO empty tomb
G.Thomas - NO empty tomb

130s
Papias - NO empty tomb
2 Peter - NO empty tomb
The Pastorals - NO empty tomb
G.Peter - NO empty tomb

140s
to Diognetus - NO empty tomb
Ep.Apostles - NO empty tomb
2 Clement - NO empty tomb
Aristides - NO empty tomb


Now have a look at THIS Chronology of who mentioned the Gospels :

50s
Paul - NO Gospel mentions

60s
Hebrews - NO Gospel mentions

80s
Colossians - NO Gospel mentions
1 John - NO Gospel mentions
James - NO Gospel mentions

90s
Ephesians - NO Gospel mentions
2 Thess. - NO Gospel mentions
1 Peter - NO Gospel mentions
1 Clement - NO Gospel mentions
Revelation - NO Gospel mentions

100s
The Didakhe - NO Gospel mentions
Jude - NO Gospel mentions

110s
Barnabas - NO Gospel mentions

120s
2 John - NO Gospel mentions
3 John - NO Gospel mentions
G.Thomas - NO Gospel mentions

130s
Papias - First mention of books LIKE Gospels
2 Peter - NO Gospel mentions
The Pastorals - NO Gospel mentions
G.Peter - NO Gospel mentions
Ignatius - Allusion to a Gospel

140s
to Diognetus - NO Gospel mentions
Ep.Apostles - NO Gospel mentions
2 Clement - NO Gospel mentions
Aristides - Gospel is new in his time (138-161)


Notice the SAME pattern?
This shows clearly that early Christians did NOT know about the Gospels stories - AND that they got their Jesus stories FROM the Gospels - late anonymous books written by people who never met Jesus.


And - Aristides tells us that
"... the gospel, as it is called, which a short time was preached among them".

He is saying the the Gospel is new - has only been preached for a short time - in the period 138-161 (because he names the emperor.) And that is is called "The Gospel" - singular. And it has no author's name attached yet.

Clear evidence that the Gospel only became known, even to Christians, in early-mid 2nd century, and that even that late it was un-named and still singular at least as far as that writer knew.


Kapyong
 
gmilam said:
Did your grandfather rise from the dead? I suspect if he had, someone would've written about it.
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Well this is hitting below the belt. Look you probably never lived in an undeveloped country , and you believe every action and things are registered , you live in a fantasy world and you thing we Christians of believers live in fantasy
 
Kapyong said:
Josephus has been tampered with by Christians - it is either a complete forgery, (or a corrupted original about who knows what.)

But Christians keep bringin this forgery up as if it proves something. The 'best evidence' for Jesus - and it's suspect.



K.
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I see any thing what is different from you view is forgery,


Why did the world embraced Christianity ?
 
I don't know, I was just answering your question. The Romans took christianity as their own, so since they were the center of civilization, they were able to spark its spread across their known world.

That's an interesting question though...if christianity hadn't taken hold, would Rome have held on to their gods, or taken judaism instead, or something different? Would a form of islam have inevitability branched off from something, or developed on its own with its own background? No crusades, but would there have been something similar?

Alternate history is fun, but it's really hard to say how much would change or remain the same. Sagan speculated on a Cosmos episode how, had the library of Alexandria not burned down, had the Greeks continued to prosper and grow, we might be in starships now with Greek lettering. Maybe, maybe not.
 
Rhaedas said:
I don't know, I was just answering your question. The Romans took christianity as their own, so since they were the center of civilization, they were able to spark its spread across their known world.


I imagine Christianity grew voluntary up to Constantine time .( I don't know if after Constantine was voluntary )
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That's an interesting question though...if christianity hadn't taken hold, would Rome have held on to their gods, or taken judaism instead, or something different? Would a form of islam have inevitability branched off

The Jews are not interested in converts. I believe if the moors would have not been stopped at Tours , Europa would be Islam , so we would not fly in airplanes but we would fly on carpets
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yaracuy said:
Well this is hitting below the belt. Look you probably never lived in an undeveloped country , and you believe every action and things are registered , you live in a fantasy world and you thing we Christians of believers live in fantasy
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The Roman empire was not a primitive society. Literacy was more common than most people believe. I've found estimates as high as 20%. But most agree on approximately 10%. The point being, it was not all oral tradition. But yet, there are NO contemporary references to Jesus. The oldest references are easily 30 years after the events supposedly took place.
 
gmilam said:
The Roman empire was not a primitive society. Literacy was more common than most people believe. I've found estimates as high as 20%. But most agree on approximately 10%. The point being, it was not all oral tradition. But yet, there are NO contemporary references to Jesus. The oldest references are easily 30 years after the events supposedly took place.
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Let me understand on what you mean contemporary reference.
Were the apostles, real or not ?
Who's apostles were they ?
The book of acts was written by a literate man (Luke ) should that be taken as reference ?
Could be Luke taken as a reporter ( as in our days )
 
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