Developing Telepathy

[Happeh]

Why not tell us what you see? I think you already know the answers that are going to come from 'non-believers'. The energy evidenced is light, chemical, electrical, sound. There is emotion, dancing, photosynthesis, matter. The word 'energy' that we are using is the standard agreed upon definition of the english language.

If you're referring to a different concept then describe what it is and provide evidence for it.

OK. That is fair. This cements it. You don't want to cooperate. Your only purpose here is to tell people they are wrong, and to make demands of them.

I wish you would just say that out straight instead of wasting peoples time.

 

[duendy]

OK. That is fair. This cements it. You don't want to cooperate. Your only purpose here is to tell people they are wrong, and to make demands of them.

I wish you would just say that out straight instead of wasting peoples time.

CC, itis that your philosophy looks at energy 'objectively' and underestimate subkjectivity

btw, checkout tislink to try and put you straihght rgharding your previous replies to me http://www.idiom.com/~drjohn/review.html

for example, how you tinking categorizes 'schizophrenia' as being like a 'radio just off the station' or words to that effect. well, yeahhh. but that is not a biological...'defect'. it is a process. itisusually visionary experience which is natrul healing process. but your mateialistc understanding will only look at the objective manifestation. the CONTENT has no meaning for you. especially if it threatens your materialistic worldview

well, ca you not see that your stance regarding that is correlated with your views about pepls exceptional experiences,which may include clairevoyance, telepathy, abduction experiences, etc etc

yu discount them. as yu said, you are waiting for science to sometime show evidence they are biological defects. ie., you already pre-judge them as mental illness. for me this is extremely NOT scientific.

did you see the quote i put foreward in tis trhread about two different approaches to exploring reality--the scientific and via scientism?....well believe it or not there ARE scientists who use the former approach. yet you would not accept their contributions. precisely because you cling to your materialistic philosophy

 

[leopold]

That answer is a cop out. A refusal to be involved.

i object
the prosecution is leading the witness

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Here is my point. Getting cooperation from you is nothing but trouble. That answer is a cop out. A refusal to be involved. It makes no difference what you think of the amount of information available. You are supposed to answer the questions with what is available.

To me, it looks like, now that I pointed at something, anything, in the music, you are running away before I make some point or the other.

The answer is honest. From the auditory information provided, I don't have any viable evidence to hypothesize why the baby started / stopped crying. If I made up some fantasy about why the baby started crying then I would be delivering false information.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

OK. That is fair. This cements it. You don't want to cooperate. Your only purpose here is to tell people they are wrong, and to make demands of them.

I wish you would just say that out straight instead of wasting peoples time.

I've cooperated multiple times with these experiments and each time the results that you want are apparently not coming to be. You should be quite thankful I have even humored them and not re-directed attention to the to the simple fact that you have been utterly unable to provide evidence that even remotely suggests 'telepathy' and 'spiritual energy' exist.

The conclusions asserted above are not based on evidence... again a fundamental difference between 'believers' and 'non-believers'. I am actually surprised how handicap 'belief' has rendered you... I have seen other 'believers' cross over into the realm of reality a few times, but not in your case. Because of this, I suspect the bulk of my words won't make any sense; however, our interaction in this thread is priceless and might serve as a wonderful reference in the future.

 

[ellion]

I have seen other 'believers' cross over into the realm of reality a few times,

ah! you already know reality then? your purpose is nothing more than to drag others into it with you?

"One of the most significant experiments in the hist'ory of ESP (or 'psi') research was conducted by Dr Gertrude Schmeidler in 1942 the famous 'sheep and goats' experiment. Schmeidler asked a group of her studens to submit to tests using Zener cards. Before the experiment she asked which of them believed in 'psi' and which thought it nonsense. She classified the 'believers' as 'sheep' and the sceptics as 'goats'. The results showed that the 'sheep' had scored significantly above average. Equally exciting was that the 'goats' had scored below. This was impossible on a chance basis, and meant that they had somehow suppressed their natural 'psi' powers to support their own intellectual convictions; that is to say, the left brain simply countered the right brain's attempts at ESP, but in so doing left its fingerprints all over the experiment."

 

[Quantum Quack]

Have been away for a while [ shifting house ] and just got back online a few hours ago and of course went to my favourite thread to see what has happened.....and oh...well!!! I see not much has changed.
There are hypothesis as to the physical or material nature of telepathy, that involve physics yet to be understood. Involving the nature of time and distance, dimensionality and the illusion of 3 dimensional space.

However at present this understanding is way ahead of us and when finally understood a uniform theory of everything [TOE] would be achieved.

In other threads I have posted a diagram just to wet the appetite as to the mechanics of universal consciousness and I shall post it again here just as a matter of curiosity.
<img src=http://www.ozziesnaps.com/Ozziewebworkings/higs.gif>

The diagram refers to zero dimensionalism that is common to every thing that exists. That everything is in a zero distance and time relationship via a zero point [ nothing ness] as with particle entanglement [QM] we all share an entangled relationship.

However as we are self animated we break that entanglement as soon as we are aware of it. Usually Fear and a conflict of interest causes the entanglement [ telepathic relationship ] to become broken as we automatically attempt to effect the entangled person once we are aware of that relationship at this level. Thus telepathy or more precisely the telepathic relationship, can only be proved in hindsight and not predicted.

One thing that seems to be confused is that telepathy invloves the instincts of at least two people but in absolute it involves the instincts of every thing that has them universally. So as I suggested earlier it is impossible to read a persons mind if their instincts prevent you from doing so. A bit like farting in a crowded elevator and pretending it aint you that done it. You hide your complicity mentally and physically thus no one in the elevator can determine the source of the dreadful smell.

Summary:
Telepathy can only be proven in hindsight and is currently unpredictive. Simply because awareness of a conscious attempt immediately causes the entanglement to be broken [ see particle entanglement in QM]

As yet it has proven almost impossible to shield two persons from ouside instinctive interference.

OK, so we have a hypothesis as to why it has proven to be impossible to demonstrate predictive telepathy.

And as hindsight proof is deemed unacceptable to science we have an impasse as to the validity of the notion.
Science requires predictability which by nature requires fore-sight and as explained this is impossible given the current state of instinctive fear based responses.

However the big philosophical question is: Does the lack of predictability make the hindsight evidence invalid?

[ I think this is the main thrust of this post]

 

[Crunchy Cat]

CC, itis that your philosophy looks at energy 'objectively' and underestimate subkjectivity

btw, checkout tislink to try and put you straihght rgharding your previous replies to me http://www.idiom.com/~drjohn/review.html

I saw the URL. One interesting assertion is that Schizophreia doesn't exist. Clearly it does. Are there problems with the psychiatric industry? Most definately.

for example, how you tinking categorizes 'schizophrenia' as being like a 'radio just off the station' or words to that effect. well, yeahhh. but that is not a biological...'defect'. it is a process. itisusually visionary experience which is natrul healing process. but your mateialistc understanding will only look at the objective manifestation. the CONTENT has no meaning for you. especially if it threatens your materialistic worldview

The cause of 'being slightly off the station' can be a result of head trauma, interrupted brain development, or a genetic varaition (the DNA instructions just didn't produce the best result). The ultimate result is different parts of the brain operating at different electrical frequency. That causes noise and can be reproduced. When the brain operates at a single electrical frequency there is no noise.

I actually think the subjective experience of schizophrenics is fascinating. I am certain I have a variant of this myself. I hear music thats not there. It's never interfered with my development and has actually helped me with my auditory memory and musical ability. It is nonetheless hallucination.

well, ca you not see that your stance regarding that is correlated with your views about pepls exceptional experiences,which may include clairevoyance, telepathy, abduction experiences, etc etc

Duendy, it should be quite clear that if a claim is made then evidnece should be available. This happens all the time except with 'PSI' folks.

yu discount them. as yu said, you are waiting for science to sometime show evidence they are biological defects. ie., you already pre-judge them as mental illness. for me this is extremely NOT scientific.

All my offers to help people demosntrate their claims of 'PSI' would utterly contradict your statement.

did you see the quote i put foreward in tis trhread about two different approaches to exploring reality--the scientific and via scientism?....well believe it or not there ARE scientists who use the former approach. yet you would not accept their contributions. precisely because you cling to your materialistic philosophy

I accept evidence duendy, if it contradicts a theory or hypothesis of mind then I can always remodel. I am not at all afraid to be wrong. I wish I was... so far 46 pages and only one possible item pending concerning telepathy (someone provided a link that I wanted to check out).

 

[Crunchy Cat]

read the above crunchy and see if it means what you meant to say

My bad... typo. I corrected it.

 

[Quantum Quack]

Duendy, it should be quite clear that if a claim is made then evidnece should be available. This happens all the time except with 'PSI' folks.

CC do you feel that it is the simply the lack of prdictability that inhibits sciences recognition of telepathy as being possible?
[please see my earlier post about hindsight proof vs predictive proofs]

Btw I am thinking of a common song...can you hear it?

 

[ellion]

another interesting read

http://www.survivalafterdeath.org/articles/johnson/telepathy.htm


It is hardly necessary for me to reiterate my often expressed conviction of the extreme importance for philosophy and psychology of the well-established results of psychical research, and my regret that most philosophers and psychologists are content to remain in ignorance of them. Telepathy, both simultaneous and precognitive, is now an experimentally established fact."

http://www.survivalafterdeath.org/articles/johnson/telepathy.htm

 

[Quantum Quack]

Actually I mention the breaking of entanglement which is not quite correct as the entanglement cannot be broken only mitigated [ie. ignored ]

 

[ellion]

QQ does time exist in zero point too?

what i actually mean is are all dimensions contained within the zero point. i may be misunderstanding the theory because of the terminology used.

 

[Quantum Quack]

QQ does time exist in zero point too?

what i actually mean is are all dimensions contained within the zero point. i may be misunderstanding the theory because of the terminology used.

Personally I find it more productive to say that the zero dimensional point is contained within all other dimensions, [ not the other way round] when the word dimesnion is referring to plane of existance and not just an area of measurement.

In physics I believe there may be some analogy with the Higgs bosun or Higgs field.

Regards time, normally no would be the answer thus Special relativity is in question. [ We already know how AE's theory is so strongly defended]

This entanglement I am referring to has no distance therefore no time involved. As this zero dimensional point expands into 2, 4 and as some would have it 28 dimesions it acquires time thus distance therfore substance or material values.

Just a personal note that I will not attempt to provde evidence for :
The reason I answer vaguely regards time is that it is in my experience that in the past the zero point had acquired a degree of non-simultaneity which proved to be a significant problem which thankfully is now almost fully rectified back to zero. But it was this non-simultaneity and the suffering it caused that alerted me to the issue of simultaneity in the psi realm

 

[ellion]

so precognitive phenomena would not be any easier to explain in this model?

 

[Quantum Quack]

so precognitive phenomena would not be any easier to explain in this model?

The model as briefly described only shows a possible reason for the non-predictive nature of what we are talking about.

In precognition you have at least two fundamental attributes.
1] The fully predetermined future events
2] Those events that we can effect or detertmine for ourselves.

Briefly:

By being precognitive of future events the entanglement is immediately effected thus precog. is also non predictive or in other words sooth is unreliable simply because the sooth-sayer immediately impacts on the entanglement that would lead to the sooth becoming true.
Thus even precog tends to be a hindsight proof and not a fore-sight proof.
Things like dejavu can not be predicted ahead of the experience because to do so would invalidate that future.
The premonition concerning other self animated life forms is unable to be predictive however premonitions about fully predetermined events such as those involving material unalterable pheno like eclipses and solar flares and earth quakes etc are more possible except that those predictions necessarilly involve the instincts of all other people which shuts down any useful predictiveness.
For example the subtle awareness of a pending earth quake immediately inspires fears which immediately obscures the prediction and prevents it from becoming conscious.
So in the end it is better to state that awareness defeats itself in it's predictive capacity.
As zero point entanglement is by it's nature a zero point it takes very little instinctive reflexive effort to mitigate, thus it is virtually impossible to manage in a way that can be predictive. It is what I call the self-determination or free-will metastablity factor.

 

[Quantum Quack]

Just a little story about what I mean.

I was sitting at a bar talking to this young guy who was complaining about being lonely and was looking for a female partner. We were talking about philosophy and I thought I could help him with his loneliness by saying to him that if he realised that the truth is we are all in a sub-conscious relationship with everyone else he would not consider himself lonely any more.

As an example I asked him to point out any one at the bar whom he would like to be in a "conscious" relationship with and he pointed out this attractive female about 20 feet away.

I said [ unwisely] that he is already in a realtionship with her and he of course got all hot about the notion etc etc as you would expect and immediately with the notion of pre-existing relationship in mind started to hit on this girl with his thoughts etc and even later attempted to talk to her,. However what actually happened was that as soon as he realised his fundamental relationship with this stranger he immediately attempted to effect her freedom and self determination. Of course she didn't take to kindly to his interferance and rejected everything he attempted to do. In fact his knowledge of the interrelationships between people that I had given him put him at a distinct dis-advantage....and he ended up even more lonely than he did at the start of our conversation......see...I was unwise in my advice to him.

His male instincts fired up and he attempted to dominate the woman instinctively and of course her freedom of self- determination was threatened by a stranger and she instictively and intuitively fought his cohercion and intentions and was openly hostile in a rather "seemingly" irrational way. Her hostile reaction to this guy was unable to be rationalised by normal means. On the surface he appeared to be just doing what guys normally do but her intuition and instincts told her other-wise thus her reaction appeared to be unecessariily hostile to the extreme [consciously]

So you see you can't even win at a psychic level when it comes to chasing a partner be it male or female.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

CC do you feel that it is the simply the lack of prdictability that inhibits sciences recognition of telepathy as being possible?
[please see my earlier post about hindsight proof vs predictive proofs]

Hi QQ,

My interpretation is that science has asked reality alot of great questions and received alot of great answers. The results indicate that human biology doesn't have any mechanisms to transfer complex thought between two individuals. That pheremone hypothesis of yours is a good one and has limitations.

I don't think predictibility is the core issue. What we know points to limitations in biology and claims of telepathy are not showing any evidence. Combine them together and the possibility doesn't seem likely.

Btw I am thinking of a common song...can you hear it?

At this very moment I have about 30 seconds of a song I heard in my car being cycled through my auditory processing system. It's a song from Dream Theatre and is exceptionally loud (a result of being tired).

 

[Crunchy Cat]

One last note... that quantum entaglement reference doesn't necessarily apply to thought. I haven't heard of a case where the atoms of neurons and dendrites are experiencing entaglement with those from the same or a foreign body.

Assuming thought could be entagled (and detangled upon recognition of the entanglement), we would be able compare the information that all parties recall. Careful analysis of details could provide support for such a hypothesis... i.e. the smoking gun is evidence

 

[leopold]

... i.e. the smoking gun is evidence

not realy true
if i produced a photo of jfk laying on the ground dead and
a cia man standing there with a smokeing gun
that does not mean the cia shot the president

the cia might have intended to shoot someone else
and the president just "happened" to be standing there