Democracy or Dictatorship

[Michael]

Suppose you were living in a corrupt Republic. One where the wealthy use their money to buy political allegiance, control information and manipulate the electorate. That said, this is still a Republic. You can vote your conscious. It's just you have this nagging feeling that people are idiots (more akin to sheep than human) and nothing has ever changed for your family generation after generation. You are poor. You live in a Ghetto. Chances are good you will be shot someday. Either some random gangland violence or a cop or a mugger - more than likely, one of them has your number. Chances are not good for you and a bright future. You have a job cleaning the public toilets and this is about as good as it's going to get for you. You will probably never own a house. Just wash shit, pay taxes to the man and someday die.

But, there is hope. Maybe you'll win the lottery? Or .... something?



Now, Suppose you had a chance to live under a Benevolent Dictator. One who would (not just says but actually would) increase your prospects in life. This Dear Leader would make your life better. Lets say we know for a fact it would be much much better for at least 25 years. After that then we don't know. Maybe things stay pretty good. Maybe they go to shit. Dear Leader, if given your support, would rid the land of all the gangs, crooked cops, and rich degenerates. He would hire you to work in the People's Army. He would give you a nice clean and safe house to live in. In a decent neighborhood. With decent food. A respectable job - one you could be proud to have.


All it would cost you is your freedom to vote. You will live life under a Dictator. Albeit, one who will greatly improve your lot in life.



Suppose these are the facts. A crappy but free life in a Corrupt Republic OR a pretty decent life in a Dictatorship.

Which would you choose to live in IF ,this was your life?

 

[sandy]

Suppose you were living in a corrupt Republic. One where the wealthy use their money to buy political allegiance, control information and manipulate the electorate. That said, this is still a Republic. You can vote your conscious. It's just you have this nagging feeling that people are idiots (more akin to sheep than human) and nothing has ever changed for your family generation after generation. You are poor. You live in a Ghetto. Chances are good you will be shot someday. Either some random gangland violence or a cop or a mugger - more than likely, one of them has your number. Chances are not good for you and a bright future. You have a job cleaning the public toilets and this is about as good as it's going to get for you. You will probably never own a house. Just wash shit, pay taxes to the man and someday die. But, there is hope. Maybe you'll win the lottery? Or .... something? Now, Suppose you had a chance to live under a Benevolent Dictator. One who would (not just says but actually would) increase your prospects in life. This Dear Leader would make your life better. Lets say we know for a fact it would be much much better for at least 25 years. After that then we don't know. Maybe things stay pretty good. Maybe they go to shit. Dear Leader, if given your support, would rid the land of all the gangs, crooked cops, and rich degenerates. He would hire you to work in the People's Army. He would give you a nice clean and safe house to live in. In a decent neighborhood. With decent food. A respectable job - one you could be proud to have. All it would cost you is your freedom to vote. You will live life under a Dictator. Albeit, one who will greatly improve your lot in life. Suppose these are the facts. A crappy but free life in a Corrupt Republic OR a pretty decent life in a Dictatorship.Which would you choose to live in IF ,this was your life?

The first. Working for things is better than having them given to you. There is more self-reliance, dignity, pride, and sense of accomplishment. In the first group you have the freedom to organize, to rebel, to make yourself/situation better. The only good part about the second choice is getting rid of criminals. Most people when given something don't appreciate it like they do if they have worked for/earned it. Your freedom to vote is one of your greatest gifts. Too bad so many people don't realize that. Life under a dictator is sh*t. Look at Sudan, Iraq, Iran, North Korean, Venezuela, Cuba, China, Saudi Arabia, Burma, Zimbabwe, Libya, Syria etc... All hellholes.
The first group would have a clear conscience. The second group would always know they were sellouts.

 

[one_raven]

Chances are not good for you and a bright future. You have a job cleaning the public toilets and this is about as good as it's going to get for you. You will probably never own a house. Just wash shit, pay taxes to the man and someday die.

The job I have does not define success.
The job I have does not define me.

People put far too much emphasis on how much money they make or how "pretigious" their jobs are.
I took no less pride in how well I did my job back when I was a dishwasher than I do nowm making ten times that salary.
I know I may end up washing dishes again, and I don't have a problem with that.

One who would (not just says but actually would) increase your prospects in life.

How could I possibly know that?
What if he didn't?
I'm stuck with him for his lifetime? No thanks.

All it would cost you is your freedom to vote. You will live life under a Dictator.

There is ALWAYS the possibility of change.
I have my mind, and I can use that to sway people's votes.
That's all I need.

Suppose these are the facts. A crappy but free life in a Corrupt Republic OR a pretty decent life in a Dictatorship.

Which would you choose to live in IF ,this was your life?

I chose the vote - no matter what.
Self-determination is key.

 

[superstring01]

I voted for dictatorship because I'm a rebel.

~String

 

[one_raven]

The first. Working for things is better than having them given to you. There is more self-reliance, dignity, pride, and sense of accomplishment. In the first group you have the freedom to organize, to rebel, to make yourself/situation better. The only good part about the second choice is getting rid of criminals. Most people when given something don't appreciate it like they do if they have worked for/earned it. Your freedom to vote is one of your greatest gifts. Too bad so many people don't realize that. Life under a dictator is sh*t. Look at Sudan, Iraq, Iran, North Korean, Venezuela, Cuba, China, Saudi Arabia, Burma, Zimbabwe, Libya, Syria etc... All hellholes.
The first group would have a clear conscience. The second group would always know they were sellouts.

Oh my God...
I feel woozy.
I agree 100%.


What is so bad about hard work?
I get sad when people talk of despising it - or even view it is a necessary evil.
I think it is neither.
I think it is greatly beneficial in so many ways.

 

[Michael]

Oh my God...
I feel woozy.
I agree 100%.

haha..

What prompted this thread was me reading about life in Rome in the years prior to Octavian/Augustus. It just got me to thinking what's important to people in life. Also, I was thinking about Iraqis. I am almost 100% sure they will support a dictator as soon as the US leaves.

 

[quadraphonics]

Voted for benevolent dictator of course. Why go to all the trouble of democracy if the dictator is benevolent?

The reason democracy is preferable to dictatorship is that dictators never turn out to be benign. If they did, the age of kings would never have ended.

 

[Omega133]

haha..

What prompted this thread was me reading about life in Rome in the years prior to Octavian/Augustus. It just got me to thinking what's important to people in life. Also, I was thinking about Iraqis. I am almost 100% sure they will support a dictator as soon as the US leaves.

Im not quite sure about that. I mean are the Iraqis really THAT dumb to do it again?

 

[Michael]

Im not quite sure about that. I mean are the Iraqis really THAT dumb to do it again?

If you were a Sunni, and a minority, which choice would be better for you? A Sunni Dictator or a Elected Shia President? Iraqies if anything are probably smarter than Americans when it comes to these things because they know who rules them will matter. We Americans can hardly be bothered to get off the couch and we don't think it matters much one way or the other!

 

[Doreen]

Suppose you were living in a corrupt Republic. One where the wealthy use their money to buy political allegiance, control information and manipulate the electorate. That said, this is still a Republic. You can vote your conscious.

A republic has no monarch, but is not necessarily a democracy. A corrupt republic where the wealthy....etc. is very likely not a democracy. So the choice is not between a democracy and a dictatorship, but an oligarchy and a dictatorship.

Suppose these are the facts. A crappy but free life in a Corrupt Republic OR a pretty decent life in a Dictatorship.

That will likely degenerate into a crappy life in a dictatorship.

Which would you choose to live in IF ,this was your life?

Well, to some extent this is the case for anyone living in the US, for example. It is not a democracy. Your vote is nothing compared to the influence of wealth, wealth that choses the two candidates that you choose between. IOW an oligarchy, but one that must spend time pretending more than say the one in Rome.

 

[Doreen]

I voted for dictatorship because I'm a rebel.

~String

And rebels need dictatorships to rebel against a la Che.

 

[John99]

the problem door is that che would have just been another dictator.

 

[Doreen]

the problem door is that che would have just been another dictator.

That's not a problem for superstring, who brought up the rebel ideas, since he voted for dictatorship directly. and it's not a problem for me since I never voted for Che. But he was a rebel against dictatorships.

 

[Omega133]

If you were a Sunni, and a minority, which choice would be better for you? A Sunni Dictator or a Elected Shia President? Iraqies if anything are probably smarter than Americans when it comes to these things because they know who rules them will matter. We Americans can hardly be bothered to get off the couch and we don't think it matters much one way or the other!

Now I see your point. True we as Americans usually don't care

 

[John99]

But he was a rebel against dictatorships.

i dont agree. he was heading straight down the road to dictator and many people dont even realize that.

 

[Doreen]

i dont agree. he was heading straight down the road to dictator and many people dont even realize that.

I said he was a rebel against dictatorships.
You don't agree.

Who was he rebelling against?

This is pretty uncontested history. What kind of government Che would set up is another issue.

 

[John99]

This is pretty uncontested history. What kind of government Che would set up is another issue.

some just get drunk with power and i think he was or would have been one of them, but that is just my impression. most people dont even know he was european descent either.

 

[Doreen]

some just get drunk with power and i think he was or would have been one of them, but that is just my impression. most people dont even know he was european descent either.

Well, he could have stayed on in Cuba and become part of their government. Instead he chose to go to another country and start in again as a revolutionary. I don't agree with Che's politics, though I certainly can't stand the politics of those he fought against, but I see nothing to indicate he had personal plans for power as a dictator. It seems likely that if he had succeeded in bolivia, he would have chosen yet another country to have a revolution in.

 

[John99]

Well, he could have stayed on in Cuba and become part of their government. Instead he chose to go to another country and start in again as a revolutionary. I don't agree with Che's politics, though I certainly can't stand the politics of those he fought against, but I see nothing to indicate he had personal plans for power as a dictator. It seems likely that if he had succeeded in bolivia, he would have chosen yet another country to have a revolution in.

well the people in the region have\had spoken. i dont romanticize things that never happened just because that is what i want to believe.

 

[Doreen]

well the people in the region have\had spoken. i dont romanticize things that never happened just because that is what i want to believe.

You clearly do romanticize things that never happen. You talked about what Che Guevara WOULD have done, which he did not do. He did go to Bolivia, rather than staying on and trying to have as much power as possible in Cuba. You may be right about what he WOULD have done. But right now that is just you talking about what YOU want to believe.