W4U said; What you fail to understand is that if there is a God, it has to be a mathematical object, subject to the rules of mathematics and incapable of creating anything that does not have a mathematical nature. If there is a God, it has to obey the mathematical laws of nature. Everything else does. End of story.
Yazata said; Now you are writing like you somehow possess the secret of the universe. That makes my agnostic klaxons sound. How do you (supposedly) know this?
I speak from the perspective that the universe is fundamentally a mathematical construct. I cannot imagine any other functionally structured system that can replace the mathematical properties of the universe. This is why I maintain that; if there is a god it has to be or at least obey the mathematical laws of nature. IMO, the best religion can do is propose that God is a sentient (motivated) mathematician, which to me sounds much more complicated than any other possible inherent "quasi-intelligent" mathematical (orderly) causal function (potentialin a dynamic environment.
Thus, if a God exists, it must be a mathematical construct.
I damnably continue to consider reality the most profound of mysteries. I most emphatically do NOT think that I possess the secret of the universe. Simply attributing everything to mathematics, even if that was somehow possible which I strongly doubt, still wouldn't explain why mathematics exists in the first place
Without mathematical values and functions, the universe would still be in a state of chaos. Mathematics are everywhere you look, they are unavoidable properties of every single atom in the universe. We could not speak of "functional mechanics" without invoking mathematics.
Mathematics exist in the first place because the universe could not exist without them. Mathematics constitute self-organizing quasi-intelligent Agency.
Agency
2 Action or intervention, especially such as to produce a particular effect.
‘canals carved by the agency of running water’ or ‘a belief in various forms of supernatural agency’
https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/agency
Which of these two definitions sounds more scientifically defensible?
Self-organization
Self-organization in micron-sized Nb3O7(OH) cubes during a hydrothermal treatment at 200 °C. Initially amorphous cubes gradually transform into ordered 3D meshes of crystalline nanowires as summarized in the model below.[1]
Self-organization, also called (in the
social sciences)
spontaneous order, is a process where some form of overall
order arises from local interactions between parts of an initially disordered
system. The process can be spontaneous when sufficient energy is available, not needing control by any external agent. It is often triggered by seemingly random
fluctuations, amplified by
positive feedback.
The resulting organization is wholly decentralized,
distributed over all the components of the system.
As such, the organization is typically
robust and able to survive or self-repair substantial perturbation. Chaos theory discusses self-organization in terms of islands of predictability in a sea of chaotic unpredictability.
Self-organization occurs in many
physical,
chemical,
biological,
robotic, and
cognitive systems. Examples of self-organization include
crystallization, thermal
convection of fluids,
chemical oscillation, animal
swarming,
neural circuits.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-organization
Cosmologists tell us they are not inventing mathematics but "discovering" existing mathematics which they can describe via human symbolized mathematics.
Perhaps recognition of the unbelievably large scope of the universe overwhelms our sense of order, but Science is especially good in pulling things apart and finding "common denominators" in many seemingly disparate patterns.
Wavefunctions of the electron in a hydrogen atom at different energy levels. Quantum mechanics cannot predict the exact location of a particle in space, only the probability of finding it at different locations.[1] The brighter areas represent a higher probability of finding the electron.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_mechanics
Note the "self-organizing" mathematical patterns which become manifest under various conditions. These are recurring mathematical patterns and can be mathematically predicted to form and behave in specific orderly repeatable ways. No supernatural Agency is required (its a human invention) and is conceptually redundant.
One "common denominator' of all things in the universe is the mathematical order in all physical objects , which can be identified and symbolized and used for imitating (copying) universal values and functions in a laboratory.
The Higgs boson was produced by applied mathematics, without any prior observation of the existence of bosons.
We mathematically teased the Higgs boson out from the Higgs field. This is clear proof of the power and universal applicability of mathematics. This is why the invention of human symbolic mathematics is considered the greatest
triumph of human intellect.
Maths themselves are very simple, orderly, and consistent. It is the sheer volume and varieties based on simple mathematical patterns that is the daunting part of scientific inquiry.
The simplest geometric pattern (plane) is the triangle, no? How is it possible for such a simple pattern to be able to dynamically create the most astoundingly beautiful functional mathematical art forms.
http://jasser.nl/about/fractal-geometry/
If I cut an apple into 4 pieces and we each consume 2 pieces, would you wonder if apples exist, even if that apple itself has been consumed and does no longer exist? If not, why would you question if mathematics exist?
The only way we could each have 2 pieces of that apple is if "division" (cutting the apple into 4 pieces) is a mathematical function, by any other name, no?
IMO, what is often overlooked is that the Human brain can only make "best guesses" of what the sensory perceived and processed information actually means in reality.
As Anil Seth posits, "human experience of reality is by "agreement" of shared observations."
The Universe has no such analytical weaknesses. It works via inviolable "universal mathematical constants".
But yeah, forget him, and simply answer his nonsensical claims and/or insinuations and leave it at that.
_self-organization2.jpg)
