death penalty - yes or no

[James R]

Is the death penalty an effective deterrent?

I think not. See, the thing is, criminals never expect to be caught. They generally don't plan that far ahead, and they always think they will be the ones who will get away with their crimes. If they didn't believe they could get away with it, they wouldn't commit the crime in the first place. Would they?

I'm sure the death penalty - or any penalty for that matter - brings remorse to the criminals exposed to it. Mostly, they are sorry they got caught. But a deterrent for potential criminals? No way.

 

[James R]

undertsand me when i dont feel that keeping murderers rapists paedophiles and thieves in a state of perpetual comfort is the correct thing to do.

Ah! The old "prison is a holiday camp" ploy.

If prison was really such a great place, wouldn't people be committing crimes to try to get in? It seems to me that nobody is rushing to get into prison, despite the "perpetual comfort" it supposedly offers. I wonder why...

 

[przyk]

execution means they absolutely never offend again

Ok, no arguments there. So you'd have potheads executed to make sure they never smoked a joint again?

imprisonment for life ( for life - thats a good joke ) means them being looked after by the state - guards, cells, food, cooks, cleaners, doctors.

You're making it sound like prison is a comfortable place to live. It certainly isn't, and this:

whilst in prison crimes can still be commit - like murder and rape, and other violent acts.

is partly why. Anyway, if you wanted these people executed, why would you care about them raping or killing each other?

 

[przyk]

like their victims? only the victims are innocent - a murderer is not.

That's why they're thrown in jail. Once the murderer is in jail, they are defenceless and harmless to the general public. There's simply no justification in killing them at that point. That and, as you seem to be forgetting, IT'S IRREVERSIBLE. If you kill someone and find out they were innocent, its too late. I don't know about you, but I'd prioritize protecting the innocent over punishing the guilty. You're beginning to come off as bloodthirsty.

 

[przyk]

lets ask the victims... oh wait - some are dead, some cannot face the vile act FORCED upon them by the criminal.

Therefore jump to the conclusion that the victim would have wanted an execution? Anyway, even in other crimes, justice is not decided by the victim.

to compare the malicious acts of a criminal to the justice handed out by the state is spurious.

Remember you said that the next time you claim murderers deserve to be murdered.

 

[daylight]

I voted yes.

I think its okay to put people to death. We must maintain order in society. People must understand that their acts will have consequences.

I shall pass judgement, I sentence you to death, I will excute you, I shall take responsibility for my judgement when the time comes.

Personal responsibility.

 

[goofyfish]

Except that you are killing in the name of government.
Personal responsibility does not enter into it at that point.
And even if it did, what if you are wrong in your sentence?

:m: Peace.

 

[alain]

Daylight.

Shouldn't you then be killed as punishment for murder?

tough luck

on the plus side, whoever executes/murders you will get what's coming to them

 

[Facial]

Is the death penalty an effective deterrent?

I think not. See, the thing is, criminals never expect to be caught. They generally don't plan that far ahead, and they always think they will be the ones who will get away with their crimes. If they didn't believe they could get away with it, they wouldn't commit the crime in the first place. Would they?

I'm sure the death penalty - or any penalty for that matter - brings remorse to the criminals exposed to it. Mostly, they are sorry they got caught. But a deterrent for potential criminals? No way.

Such solid logic...

 

[phrogget]

I voted No.

I'm not someone that thinks noone 'deserves' to die. I think plenty of people deserve to die, but it's all subjective. There has been people put to death for crimes I don't think worthy ofd a death sentace, there has been people allowed to live who I think the world would be better off if they were dead, but who exaclty should have the right to decide whether someones life should be taken away or not? Noone should have the right to be able to legally kill a person.

 

[thedevilsreject]

fuck it cremate the bastards alive then the problem is solved

 

[Quagmire]

Is the death penalty an effective deterrent?

I think not. See, the thing is, criminals never expect to be caught. They generally don't plan that far ahead, and they always think they will be the ones who will get away with their crimes. If they didn't believe they could get away with it, they wouldn't commit the crime in the first place. Would they?

I'm sure the death penalty - or any penalty for that matter - brings remorse to the criminals exposed to it. Mostly, they are sorry they got caught. But a deterrent for potential criminals? No way.

I see, so the criminal considers the the statistics for crime detection that the police in that area make available to the public, then decides their chances of getting caught or not.

I believe the police - who say 'a lot of crime is commit by opportunists'

So, risk assessment, crim sees drunk woman walking home alone at 3am - opportunity for misdeeds - crim thinks they wont get caught - rapes and beats the woman - runs off and leaves her bleeding in an alley

Now im not usually one for mind reading but

they always think they will be the ones who will get away with their crimes

so, i would like to put the following thought in the crims mind

***"crim thinks they wont get caught" + but if i do, i will be forfeiting my life ... is it really worth it?

 

[Quagmire]

Ah! The old "prison is a holiday camp" ploy.

If prison was really such a great place, wouldn't people be committing crimes to try to get in? It seems to me that nobody is rushing to get into prison, despite the "perpetual comfort" it supposedly offers. I wonder why...

because it is full of degenerate scum, degenerate scum no one wants to deal with.

i am happy to deal with the worst of the worst, a bullet to the brain, crap to all this 'it costs more to execute a prisoner' bullhunky

 

[Quagmire]

Ok, no arguments there. So you'd have potheads executed to make sure they never smoked a joint again?

You're making it sound like prison is a comfortable place to live. It certainly isn't, and this:

is partly why. Anyway, if you wanted these people executed, why would you care about them raping or killing each other?

prison isnt what it was and should still be. prison in egypt means hard labour in the baking sun, all day, everyday.

prison in britain means 3 square meals, a gym, television, guaranteed access to the outdoors for an hour a day, AND best of all NOT HAVING TO DO ANYTHING.

rape and murder is wrong, simple, if we could guarantee that only those that deserved it had to suffer in this manner, if we could handpick the recipients then that would be just dandy. but we both know that isnt the case

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_yorkshire/3826657.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/51090.stm

any tears on either account? none unless you count the blood wept by the ripper.

 

[James R]

Quagmire:

I see, so the criminal considers the the statistics for crime detection that the police in that area make available to the public, then decides their chances of getting caught or not.

No, they don't, generally. Which was my point.

I believe the police - who say 'a lot of crime is commit by opportunists'

Crime is committed by people who are open to those opportunities...

***"crim thinks they wont get caught" + but if i do, i will be forfeiting my life ... is it really worth it?

My point was that most crims never get to the "but if I do" part.

i am happy to deal with the worst of the worst, a bullet to the brain, crap to all this 'it costs more to execute a prisoner' bullhunky

Well, it's good to see you're not dismissing evidence which opposes your prejudices out of hand.

 

[Quagmire]

what evidence?

and

My point was that most crims never get to the "but if I do" part.

it is time for some force then, responsibility is the key, lets take a tougher line, a stand now before it gets worse.

alternatively, can we class the crims that never get to the 'but if i do' part as sociopaths? and therefore deal with appropriately

 

[Quagmire]

Daylight.

Shouldn't you then be killed as punishment for murder?

tough luck

on the plus side, whoever executes/murders you will get what's coming to them

you seem to have that 'arse about tit'

the system puts the crims to death, not a person.

there are no parallels between a murderers crime and the execution of a criminal by the state, apart from that a life is lost.

on one hand there is the murderers victim, on the other hand the murderers life was lost when they decided to become a killer.

 

[przyk]

prison isnt what it was and should still be. prison in egypt means hard labour in the baking sun, all day, everyday.

Russian goulag was probably worse - same idea, except freezing temperatures in winter. I don't really think you accomplish anything by working prisoners to death, but I'm certainly not against getting prisoners to do labour for society.

prison in britain means 3 square meals, a gym, television, guaranteed access to the outdoors for an hour a day, AND best of all NOT HAVING TO DO ANYTHING.

Is that why the suicide rate in British prisons is so high?

rape and murder is wrong, simple,

Not in itself. It's called "wrong" because 99.99% of people feel that way about it (I'm one of them, in case you have any doubts about that). The small minority who disagree are the ones in jail. Their opinions are effectively ignored.

if we could guarantee that only those that deserved it had to suffer in this manner, if we could handpick the recipients then that would be just dandy. but we both know that isnt the case

Do you think this problem magically disappears if capital punishment is introduced? Incidentally, its not a clear-cut issue as to what a criminal "deserves." Obviously the victim (or the victim's family) will want the criminal to receive a tougher punishment than someone that isn't involved in the incident. As I've stated before, I make a distinction between "justice" and "revenge" - I don't think the justice system should be there to please anyone, and its not like an execution will undo a murder.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_yorkshire/3826657.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/51090.stm

any tears on either account? none unless you count the blood wept by the ripper.

What point are you trying to make here? Are you trying to argue that prisons are comfortable or not? You can't have it both ways.

Incidentally...

 

[przyk]

it is time for some force then, responsibility is the key, lets take a tougher line, a stand now before it gets worse.

What makes you think this 'brute force' approach is the only approach, or the most effective? Personally I think things were worse during Viking times and the Dark Ages than they are now.

If the death penalty really would make you feel safer, why don't you move to California or Texas? The British people as a whole have decided they don't want a death penalty. Capital punishment does not come without its costs to society, and most Europeans don't think its worth the price. If it is such an important issue for you, why don't you move to a place that would better satisfy you.

 

[James R]

Quagmire:

what evidence?

The evidence that it costs most to execute a prisoner, on average, than to keep him locked up for life.