death penalty vs abortion

S

shrubby pegasus

Registered Senior Member
i dont see how those who support the death penalty can rationalize their pro life stance when they want someone to die. these things seem to be contradictory.

i would appreciate some comments from those who follow this belief.
 
I think the rationale is that the unborn child was not found guilty of a crime.
 
The birth of a baby could be compared easily with a brutal attack on a woman, resulting in six weeks of heavy bleeding, torn ligaments, preeclampsia ( A case of posenoining), and even death.
 
Well, you have to define life properly.

A baby with no lungs or brain or flesh or skin, fused eyes, is not much of a life. Maybe after the sixth month, it should be viewed as a life, because the organs and the eyes are functioning, and the baby can survive outside of his mom's womb. A fetus at an early term doesn't need to be killed to die, all you do is take it away from the mother environment, and it would collapse. This is much different than the case of killing by brutal force a grown man/woman.
 
shrubby your right. If we are going to have the death penalty in society let those who commit abortion die.
Fortunately for the abortion clinics I do not believe in the death penatly.

A fetus at an early term doesn't need to be killed to die, all you do is take it away from the mother environment, and it would collapse. This is much different than the case of killing by brutal force a grown man/woman.
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Neither do those on an airplane. Just let it fall, take
away the air pressure let it collapse.
 
This might seem illogical but those who support
the death penalty believe that it deters crime
and so prevents innocents from being killed. I do
agree with this but I do not think that we have
the statistical evidence to back this up.
 
Originally posted by okinrus
Neither do those on an airplane. Just let it fall, take
away the air pressure let it collapse.
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Yeah....I'll make sure to ask the fetus before boarding to pay $1500 for his flight, he/she have to sign in and present I.d., and while we are at it with your comparison, why not jamm up 300 adults within a woman crotch and see who would survive.

Are you insane...If you want to debate, do so intelligently....rather than drag me and others in your pit.
 
Question is: is the fetus in the early stages a SOMEONE?

How do you define SOMEONE ? Also How do you define CRIME (sorry If I sound like Morpheus here)? I mean the law can tell you this and that about crime, but ultimately you have to decide what you feel is crime, for instance many people on this board download .MP3 using peer to peer software, a serious crime if you believe RIAA lawyers, yet most of us don't feel it like a crime or a minor at best...

Why ??? probably because it is so darn easy to commit this type of "crime" If one needed to be an experienced hacker and put a lot of hacking/cracking, effort and time in, to get all those .MP3 files than most of us would consider it a real criminal at work.

Not being a women I might step on thin ice here, but I could imagine for a women it feels like a lesser crime to flush the unborn human that has no face and not much of a history than blowing your landlords head off with a double barreled gun, allthough some landlords are just plainly asking for it:p
 
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Call me a moron but i see it this way

A unwanted child can ruin many peoples lives


Killing a Brutal murderer saves and helps many lives.

At the stage of pregnancy when abortion is allowed the fetus has no traces of life.....in medical terms a life is recorded when a heart beat is first observed in the fetus...prior to that it is just a collection of cells to who knows what. Do i feel bad aborting it? no...but then again i am not a woman and it is her body..leave it to her. However, one does take a risk when aborting a fetus...you never know how the child could have been...(Beethoven was born under horrendous conditions...so was Stalin).

Death Penalty - I have nothing against killing men, call me a sadist but there are too many on this planet but there must be a valid reason..(many will argue that there is no valid reason to kill a man...but fuck that..there is)...but in Trigger happy states such as Texas many innocent men have been wrongly given the death penalty and many innocent men have died so if we are to be the JUDGE, JURY and the EXECUTIONER of a mans fate than be certain of such actions...be vindictive of the sentence you pass and may god help your soul.:eek:
 
Yeah....I'll make sure to ask the fetus before boarding to pay $1500 for his flight, he/she have to sign in and present I.d., and while we are at it with your comparison, why not jamm up 300 adults within a woman crotch and see who would survive.

Are you insane...If you want to debate, do so intelligently....rather than drag me and others in your pit.
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You should not take personal offense to what I say as
sometimes people need to wake up to reality.
The unborn child and the just newly born
child are dependant on the mother to live. I
consider the learning and growth that the unborn and
newly born baby to be completely remarkable and is a
clear sign of human life.

How do you define SOMEONE ? Also How do you define CRIME ? I mean the law can tell you this and that about crime, but ultimately you have to decide what you feel is crime, for instance many people on this board download .MP3 using peer to peer software, a serious crime if you believe RIAA lawyers, yet most of us don't feel it like a crime or a minor at best...
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I consider that stealing is morally wrong
but I have commited this and know this to be a sin.
Also I do not believe that the music industry is completely blameless here but it is certainly stealing.
SOMEONE is human life and a soul but I realize that this has a religious perspective. Another way to define SOMEONE
is a heart pumping blood that is human.

Why ??? probably because it is so darn easy to commit this type of "crime" If one needed to be an experienced hacker and put a lot of hacking/cracking, effort and time in, to get all those .MP3 files than most of us would consider it a real criminal at work.
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Not every morally wrong thing has to be a crime. Again
I do consider it morally wrong but almost impossible
to track down as a criminal offense within the framework of our
country's free speach.

Not being a women I might step on thin ice here, but I could imagine for a women it feels like a lesser crime to flush the unborn human that has no face and not much of a history than blowing your landlords head off with a double barreled gun, allthough some landlords are just plainly asking for it
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Hitler also thought he was accomplishing a divinely given
moral truth. We cannot go with "feels" in moral
decisions. However truthfully if you gave me shotgun
and 1/10000 chance of shooting a baby or winning
a million dollars I would not take it. The Law is
correct here. If I shot and missed, I would be charged with attempted murder and if I shot the baby, I would be charged with premeditated murder. I'm suprised that many pro-choicers are willing to give others this same choice that they would never make.
 
what ever happened to mind your own business. It doesn't affect my life one bit that a woman decided to have an abortion but it does affect my life if someone is out there murdering people or people I know, so what we have is social vs personal issues and even though abortion affects the mother and her unborn child it is still something that affects her life only since the fetus has no life yet, I'm not saying it isn't alive I'm saying it doesn't yet understand it's existence(and I am not going to explain that any further... for now). And I could be totally wrong about this, all I know is we, all humans, seem to make it a point to involve ourselves in things we should just leave alone, god, if he does exist can deal with the morality of the issues, all we need to do is get along which we haven't been able to do since we were put on this planet.
 
This affects everyone.
If your a mother who wants to
give birth and someone intentionally pushes you
or give you a drug to have a miscarriage then
that's murder. If I was married, I would want
the perpetrator tried for murder.
If God wanted the child to die, the child would
be dead. I'm not getting into anyones business as
I suspect the entire society will be punished.
We can obviously let God punished someone. In fact
I put more blame on the doctors making the money off
the abortion than the mothers.
 
Pro Choice

Why is it that people get bent out of shape when it comes to aborting a baby but when it comes to pulling the plug on daddy who has been on life support for six months costing a economically sturggling family tens of thosands of dollars is just fine because he's just a vegetable. I feel the same way about a fetus. What is a fetus losing by being aborted? What, is it pissed because it never got a chance to play video games? Is anger, joy even apart of it's exsistence?

And if your a christian, you really shoudn't have a problem with abortion because the baby is sparred his chance to fuck up and be in hell. It's like your about to take the hardest exam of your life and right as you walk in class, your professor like " ohh, i forgot, you don't have to take the test, you've already got an A+ for the class" Who in there right mind would be like "Gosh darn it! I really wanted to try my luck at that test!" So christian (and other religous sects) really baffle me with their opposition to abortion.
 
Originally posted by okinrus

If God wanted the child to die, the child would
be dead. .
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Well, by that statement God is very Pro-Choice b/c thousands of abortions take place every year. I guess God wanted them to be aborted so they were.
 
Why is it that people get bent out of shape when it comes to aborting a baby but when it comes to pulling the plug on daddy who has been on life support for six months costing a economically sturggling family tens of thosands of dollars is just fine because he's just a vegetable. I feel the same way about a fetus. What is a fetus losing by being aborted? What, is it pissed because it never got a chance to play video games? Is anger, joy even apart of it's exsistence?
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Its reasonable to assume that he will never regain
concience. Also this is not usually the choice of one person though. It envolves doctors and families.

d if your a christian, you really shoudn't have a problem with abortion because the baby is sparred his chance to fuck up and be in hell. It's like your about to take the hardest exam of your life and right as you walk in class, your professor like " ohh, i forgot, you don't have to take the test, you've already got an A+ for the class" Who in there right mind would be like "Gosh darn it! I really wanted to try my luck at that test!" So christian (and other religous sects) really baffle me with their opposition to abortion.
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Life is not a test. The infant will not be condemned to
hell but the infant has missed all oportunity to do good.
Their place in heaven is not as high as possible.
Also if your Christian there are numerous bibical passages
such as in Jeremiah "In my womb I formed you",
Jesus was concieved by the Holy Spirit before
pregancy, John the Baptist in Elizabeth's womb leaps,
and in the Jewish sacrafices the blood was considered giving life.
 
Well, by that statement God is very Pro-Choice b/c thousands of abortions take place every year. I guess God wanted them to be aborted so they were.
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So if we sin by murdering, we can say God caused us.
 
Okrinus you contradict yourself, and please answer my questions

First you say "life is not a test" but there must be some kind of measuring system because "their place is not as high as possible"
If their are different "places" in heaven then there is some kind of test. Also, if God knows everything then why couldn't he just "place" the baby where he would have been had he lived?

Second, What good the infant could have done in life is pointless because it also could have done an equal amount of evil.

Consider this... what if it was Monday and someone told you that Tuesday you would kill a five year old child (accidently) and save a five year old child (accidently). BUT you could skip the day entriely and go to Wednesday. Would you choose to have that day? I wouldn't, why kill someone (despite saving someone) when you can avoid the situation all together?

Finally, but the scriptures you quoted...are you suggesting that a fetus is capable of understand events outside of the womb? Are you saying that the fetus rejoices whenever the mother gets BINGO or gets out of a speeding ticket!? Absurd:bugeye:
 
First you say "life is not a test" but there must be some kind of measuring system because "their place is not as high as possible"
If their are different "places" in heaven then there is some kind of test. Also, if God knows everything then why couldn't he just "place" the baby where he would have been had he lived?
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I stand by what I say. Life is not a test.
Life is having God within you and so do
his will. Otherwise you are dead and will go to hell.
The argument using "places" could be done for every
moral law that exists. God allows some evil
but he does not want evil. Also we cannot assuime that God
knows that the baby will be aborted. The mother could
have a sudden change of heart not to abort.

Second, What good the infant could have done in life is pointless because it also could have done an equal amount of evil.
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Yes but at least the infant has the freewill to do
good or evil.

Finally, but the scriptures you quoted...are you suggesting that a fetus is capable of understand events outside of the womb? Are you saying that the fetus rejoices whenever the mother gets BINGO or gets out of a speeding ticket!? Absurd
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Well only Christians accept the complete authority of scripture.
Mary's voice is special and is extremely pure able to
penetrate Elizabeth's womb. At the sound of
Mary's greeting, the baby leaped. While
John the Baptist might not have been fully rational, he
was certainly filled with the holy spirit before birth.
In Jerimiah, Before I formed you in your womb, I knew
you. So the you refers to the person Jerimiah who existed
before he was formed in the womb.
 
no offense to you and your beliefs okinrus but in my view that is pretty ridiculous. im not going to trust any book written by man that claims divine truth. man is fallible, everything that man writes contains those same fallibilities. im also not going to believe taht a god used to make himself known all the time 2000 years ago and later, but pretty much has not been heard from since. im also not going to believe in the good ness of a merciful god taht rains down fire and brimstone and makes it rain 40 days to kill everyone. for this god being all knowing and ethical, he sure seems like bratty little kid.
 
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