Ophiolite said:
1) I am at a loss to understand how someone can (as you accuse me) abuse fake power. That seems a contradiction in terms.
The source of the power is fake, but the power has social value because of social manipulation. In other words, the power/ manhood/ masculinity is not the one that is based on one's natural masculinity but it is entirely dependant of the lies that the society spreads. One could be totally devoid of natural masculinity but may still feel and be treated as superior and a 'real' man on account of an artificial manhood ascribed to 'heterosexuality'. And that is how pressure is exerted on men --- particularly during their youth, when they are the most vulnerable.
The power is actually superficial and hollow, but it works because man has been removed from his natural masculinity and made entirely dependant on fake social masculinity for a sense of manhood.
But perhaps you're right about the terminology. The power if it works is real, even though the source is society, not nature.
Ophiolite said:
2) Related to that, you appear to see me as some member of the establishment. In as much as I own my own home, have a middle class life style and the mandatory two children you could argue it was true. In all ways that matter I am not part of the establishment. Indeed, you glibly accuse me of insulting you - my insults are direct and were aimed initially and primarily at your hypothesis and your methodology. In contrast you are attacking me personally.
In my view, one can only afford to dismiss something without examining it when they have the power to do so. Moreso, if they choose to 'insult', 'threaten' or 'hound/ harass' the other. Even someone who is much inferior/ lesser to his opponent (I don't mean you!) can use the 'combined power' to defeat a naturally superior person who is devoid of this power source.
My accusation is only partially personal, as I have later explained the power that I'm accusing you of is a 'combined' power structure that is open to anyone who conforms to it. And my accusations are only reserved for those who use personal abuses/ insults and at the same time dismiss my assertions without considering my evidences.
Ophiolite said:
3) Satyr was, in my opinion, delivering an attack on your hypothesis, not an attack on homosexuality. I support him in the former, I would not support him in the latter.
Of course Satyr was not being personal in his attacks. But he was cleverly dismissing my assertions backed by loads of real evidences on the basis of this artificial social power (of which stereotypes are an integral part!).
By the way, this artificial social power doesn't belong to individuals (as it is not based on inner strength or inner masculinity). It is a combined social power which is available to any man who will fulfill its specified roles. And that is why men stand in line to conform to them --- what you call 'homophobia' is part of the roles required to gain a better access to this combined social power --- and so men compete to do it.
This combined/ community social power percolates in the 'air' and anyone who fulfills the society's conditions for manhood can immediately feel that 'power'. When you date a girl (esp. the first few times) and feel a sense of power, of being a real man -- it is this power hanging in the air. When you are caught involuntarily looking at a good looking man (which most men in a heterosexual society programme themselves not to), and immediately a sense of disempowerment, vulnerability and being less of a man envelops you --- its also a collective disempowerment hanging in the air. For just like a collective power there is also a collective 'disempowerment'.
When a 'heterosexually' identified man puts down a 'homosexually' identified man (ironically even a wimpish 'heterosexually' identified man can put down a masculine 'homosexually' identified man using stereotypes!) or just feels superior, it is this artificial power that hangs in the air doing its job.
The individual is incapable of fighting against this collective power. Many men who don't want to conform in order to get this power, partially deal with the consequent disempowerment by getting a different identity/ social space for themselves.
Ophiolite said:
I support him in the former, I would not support him in the latter.
In my opinion 'homosexuality' is just as much guilty of oppressing men as heterosexuality. As it is, it is part of the heterosexual society and is based on the same principles as heterosexuality.
If you support homosexuality you're already biased and starting from a point of misleading assumptions.
Ophiolite said:
4) Experimental method and the peer review process is designed to remove bias, however the starting point is to recognise the bias exists.
O.k.
As long as people are willing to get into that process --- in our case through a discussion. You can't do much when people choose not to discuss, but just to display their biases (I'm not talking about you)..
Ophiolite said:
5) In some matters bias is essential. Example: What is your favourite filmof 2003? In other's it must be avoided. Example: What is the best film made in 2003?
The problem starts when I say, "Film A cannot be the best film of 2003" because "it is not my favourite film". That cannot be a basis for dismissing the film at a macro level.
Ophiolite said:
6) Let me give you some news. Darwin's theory hasn't been in use for well over half a century. The amalgam of natural selection with genetics gave us neo-Darwinism, but nowhere in that is there any room for your declared views on Sexuality.
I really don't think Darwinism is all that extinct. If you watch the National Geographic or the Discovery Channel (which is the source for 'scientific knowledge' for laymen like me --- Darwinism is not only alive and kicking, it is growing unhindered, primarily because it supports so-called 'heterosexuality'. Perhaps 'heterosexualism' is neo-darwinism, which is worse than its predecessor.
A few examples:
- When a wild deer pees, the scientists know that he is doing it to attract females? All actions and every single biological or 'social' development of males is shown as desgined to attract the female --- as if that is the end and beginning of what it means to be a male. Males are only there to carry sperms for the reproduction process. Males have no other biological value.
- A programme to discuss sexuality both amongst animals and humans --- talks about it in relation to what Darwin said, and how pleasure and bonding between only male and female was justified because it is 'claimed' to lead to reproduction. The programme does not talk about sex between the same-sex as if it does not matter. The underlying assumption is that same-sex bonds only exists as an abnormality and therefore needs no consideration -- a belief based on Darwinism. This notwithstanding the fact that scientists have been reporting widespread same-sex activities amongst the animals.The scientific community easily chooses to ignore any evidences (even when they are peer reviewed and published) which go against Darwin/ heterosexualism --- as if they are not there, were never there.
- Same sex bonds and sex even when found in profound numbers are brushed off as 'unimportant', or given far fetched absurd motives --- on the strength that they don't fit into 'darwinism'. Even the strongly held 'scientific' belief that "reproduction" is the prime purpose of life, biology or sex is not backed up by evidences (and there is no need to ask for peer reviews in this case!). It is just assumed. It does not need to be tested or analysed.
There are endless such examples. Heterosexualism is closely related with Darwinism. Without it it does not hold substance.
Ophiolite said:
7) There can only be two kinds of evidence in this regard:
a) Peer reviewed papers from properly refereed journals.
b) Experimental evidence you have gathered yourself.
In the absence of both all you have is idle, unsubstantiated speculation.
I don't have access to the peer reviewed papers. As a layman I only have access to what is delivered to the general public --- through published books (like Bruce Bagemihl's: Biological Exuberances) or through reviews, articles, etc. published by scientists (and others using their work) on the internet.
To me they are just as valid as evidences, unless someone specifically refutes those evidences as 'false' or 'misreported'. Afterall, we don't have to get involved in 'red tapism' here. Like I said, my main job is to give food for thought to real scientists. If I manage to prove something here I'll do it on the basis of what has already been proved through peer-reviewed papers and is now available to the general public as 'common knowledge'.
In fact all I'm doing here is to reinterpret the available peer-reviewed data. I'm not collecting my own data --- not for what I'm contending here at least.
Ophiolite said:
8) You ask why would I want the evidence. I'll give you two answer. Choose the one that suits you.
a) Because that is the way science works. You need to substantiate your claims, even if they are only provisional. Evidence, not proof.
b) Because I don't believe a fraction of what you said. It runs counter to my own experience, to everything I was taught at University, to everything I have learnt since, to everything I have read is considered to describe 'reality'. I am not going to subscribe to what seems to me to be a massive delusion without some evidence.
I have not asked why you need evidence. Of course you need evidence.
I have already provided what I consider 'evidences' and 'basis' for the 3 points that you had listed (I'll do the other 2 when I squeeze some time). You have not stated that you are dissatisfied with them (and why!). I know you have talked about peer-reviewed papers, but like I said earlier --- I don't have access to them, but I can give links to scientific and other websites that have the information, often accompanied by their sources.
That is why I asked you to list the specific points that you want these links on.