Danish Cartoon backlash, there embassy is blown up in pakistan!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DiamondHearts]

Actually she has reversed on that stance, now there is no innocents: any one of the same country seem to be "culpable" I find that dishearteningly as it allows any Muslim to suffer reprisal from a terrorist attack by muslims

Obviously you have not understood a word of what Sam is trying to tell you. As I have stated earlier, most Americans only want an end to the war in Iraq because it is causing them inconvenience, they care little about the deaths and oppression it has caused in Iraq.

Now of Afghanistan, most Americans continue to support more troops there as if Afghanis haven't suffered enough.

The entire argument is of what is a legitimate target in war.

Does an American, who serves for an oil company, embassy, missionary activity, jail, logistics, security for an oppressive government, and who supported and capitalizes on the war in Afghanistan constitute a legitimate target in the eyes of an Afghani who has lost his wife and his children to the US military?

On the other hand, do thousands of poor villagers in Afghanistan deserve death because they simply happen to be in the way of an American bombing campaign of 7 years which has left 90% of Afghanistan in ruins simply because they are Afghan and Muslim?

There is a large difference between the two.

 

[S.A.M.]

most Americans only want an end to the war in Iraq because it is causing them inconvenience, they care little about the deaths and oppression it has caused in Iraq.

Most of them are completely ignoring that there is any death happening there at all. We don't do body counts and no one insists on it. They prefer to be shielded from the reality of their actions.

 

[lepustimidus]

Perhaps the Afghanis want a stabilising foreign force in Afghanistan.

Ever thought of that?

 

[S.A.M.]

Perhaps the Afghanis want a stabilising foreign force in Afghanistan.

Ever thought of that?

Thats what occupiers always say. A foreign occupation that conducts relentless airstrikes on civilian populations can never stabilise its own arse, let alone another country.

 

[ElectricFetus]

Only if all Muslims are electing them or they claim to represent all Muslims or all Muslims are responsible for their funds or all Muslims are gaining economically or socially from their killings or...

I don't think it fair to equate that as me allowing America to oppress others, any more then it is to equate an American fetus to allowing America to oppress others, I'm at least trying to revert what my government does, a fetus doesn't even do that?

You don't have to die, but you and all Americans should do more to end the war. Its a shame how useless your much vaunted freedom is.

It won't restore Iraq/Afghanistan, but its your responsibility to ensure that the damage stops here.

I don't think it a matter of me having to die, I'm asking if you think it right for me to die?

 

[S.A.M.]

I don't think it fair to equate that as me allowing America to oppress others, any more then it is to equate an American fetus to allowing America to oppress others, I'm at least trying to revert what my government does, a fetus doesn't even do that?

You vote, you pay taxes and you enjoy the benefits of US hegemony. You participate.

I don't think it a matter of me having to die, I'm asking if you think it right for me to die?

You're just a statistic to any Afghani or Iraqi. They can choose not to do body counts either.

 

[lepustimidus]

Thats what occupiers always say. A foreign occupation that conducts relentless airstrikes on civilian populations can never stabilise its own arse, let alone another country.

The Allies don't conduct relentless airstrikes on civilian populations. Quite the contrary, the Allies go to great efforts to minimise civilian loss of life. Don't blame them if your Muslim insurgent coward heroes hide amongst civilians.

 

[S.A.M.]

The Allies don't conduct relentless airstrikes on civilian populations. Quite the contrary, the Allies go to great efforts to minimise civilian loss of life. Don't blame them if your Muslim insurgent coward heroes hide amongst civilians.

If I enter your house and start shooting, can I claim that you were hiding among civilians? Thats rhetoric. Its their country, their homes, their families; the "Allies" are invaders, occupiers, murderers who are targeting them in their homes. Where else are they gonna be?

 

[lepustimidus]

If I enter your house and start shooting, can I claim that you were hiding among civilians? Thats rhetoric. Its their country. Where else are they gonna be?

If insurgents occupy the homes of civilians and start shooting at Allied and native soldiers, then yeah, they are hiding behind civilians. Which is precisely what the Afghani insurgents are doing.

 

[Kadark]

Yes, so few Jews in America, more even than in Israel, we turned them away, so how come we have such a large population of Jews in America, tell me that? if we turned them away?

So, where was your country's heart of gold when the S.S. St Louis reared its ugly head on your shores? Where was the outrage when the pivotal Wagner-Rogers bill was rejected?

 

[S.A.M.]

If insurgents occupy the homes of civilians and start shooting at Allied and native soldiers, then yeah, they are hiding behind civilians. Which is precisely what the Afghani insurgents are doing.

Don't be silly, every Afghani who resists foreign invasion is an insurgent. That would be all of them, except for the puppets and collaborators. Would you support a foreign occupier in your country?

 

[ElectricFetus]

Obviously you have not understood a word of what Sam is trying to tell you. As I have stated earlier, most Americans only want an end to the war in Iraq because it is causing them inconvenience, they care little about the deaths and oppression it has caused in Iraq.

Now of Afghanistan, most Americans continue to support more troops there as if Afghanis haven't suffered enough.

The entire argument is of what is a legitimate target in war.

Does an American, who serves for an oil company, embassy, missionary activity, jail, logistics, security for an oppressive government, and who supported and capitalizes on the war in Afghanistan constitute a legitimate target in the eyes of an Afghani who has lost his wife and his children to the US military?

On the other hand, do thousands of poor villagers in Afghanistan deserve death because they simply happen to be in the way of an American bombing campaign of 7 years which has left 90% of Afghanistan in ruins simply because they are Afghan and Muslim?

There is a large difference between the two.

I don't care what counts as legitimate target to the afghanis, I'm asking if it they actually are legitimate targets. My argument is that civilians are never legitimate targets, no matter if there from a country who government is oppsive or not. By your argument an American fetus or and American human rights watcher or an American protester is a legitimate target, the very people trying to protect and defend the Afghanis or people completely unaware by no fault of their own are legitimate targets?

Lets look at it differently, Do all germen deserve to die for world war 2?

 

[lepustimidus]

Don't be silly, every Afghani who resists foreign invasion is an insurgent. That would be all of them,

Bullshit.

except for the puppets and collaborators.

Ahh, I see. So anyone who supports Allied occupation over the return of Taliban brutality and repression is either a 'puppet' or 'collaborator'. Oh, and that must also include the average civilian who doesn't really give a shit about politics, but just wants to stay below the radar and continue living their life?

Would you support a foreign occupier in your country?

Depends on the foreign occupier, doesn't it now? And the benefits vs. risks of resisting.

 

[S.A.M.]

Bullshit.



Ahh, I see. So anyone who supports Allied occupation over the return of Taliban brutality and repression is either a 'puppet' or 'collaborator'. Oh, and that must also include the average civilian who doesn't really give a shit about politics, but just wants to stay below the radar and continue living their life?

Depends on the foreign occupier, doesn't it now? And the benefits vs. risks of resisting.

A seven year bombardment of the country is not enough of a hint? I don't care how great they think they are, they should stop forcing their ideologies on other people. The Afghanis have been a continuous civilisation for 5000 years, if they want to continue in the same vein forever, that is their choice to make. Or not. Killing hundreds of thousands to defend them is a perverted ideology anyway.

 

[lepustimidus]

A seven year bombardment of the country is not enough of a hint?

7 years of bombardment? WTF are you on about? :shrug:

 

[ElectricFetus]

You vote, you pay taxes and you enjoy the benefits of US hegemony. You participate.

So I should die? Answer the question, should I die because of it?

How about the American fetus, still in the womb, its mother has benefited economically from the USA and the fetus would not even be into being if not for the American food it mother eats, does the fetus deserve punishment?

You're just a statistic to any Afghani or Iraqi. They can choose not to do body counts either.

So that makes it right then, great then America is doing no wrong!

 

[S.A.M.]

So I should die? Answer the question, should I die because of it?

How about the American fetus, still in the womb, its mother has benefited economically from the USA and the fetus would not even be into being if not for the American food it mother eats, does the fetus deserve punishment?

Thats the logic of the airstrikes, isn't it? How many thousands of pounds of bombs thrown this year? Where? On whom? Why? How many died? Who cares?

So that makes it right then, great then America is doing no wrong!

Thats the American logic.

 

[S.A.M.]

7 years of bombardment? WTF are you on about? :shrug:

2001 to 2008.

 

[lepustimidus]

S.A.M:

Originally Posted by S.A.M.
You vote, you pay taxes and you enjoy the benefits of US hegemony. You participate.

You vote, you pay taxes and enjoy the benefits of Indian hegemony while your own troops commit various human rights abuses in Kashmir. Does that make you fair game for Islamic terrorists from Kashmir?

 

[lepustimidus]

2001 to 2008.

What bombardment? You mean to say that the Allies have been constantly bombing the entire surface of Afghanistan for 7 years?