Creepy things caught in photos

In the article linked to.
Great. Let's compare two lousy, fuzzy photographs to one another and then make some dubious assumptions about how closely they "match".

Another attack of nerves? Understandable, given the low-quality crap you're pushing of late.
Because they knew him. That's why they wouldn't make a mistake. Why do you think they are making a mistake?
The sum total of the "evidence" for the "ghostly image" matching the photo of the dead husband is, apparently:
“Terry had a long face and so does the ghost. It has the same hairstyle and is the same height – about 5ft 8 in."

Compelling!

Of course, there are lots of people with long faces who are 5'8" in the world (but no confirmed 5'8" ghosts with long faces, so far), and the "hairstyles" really aren't a very good match.

How did the taxi driver calculate the height of the "ghost"? And when did the taxi driver measure the dead husband's height?

Most importantly, how do you (Magical Realist) know that any of this is legit?
 
LOL Because they knew him.
You're aware that this doesn't make a mistake impossible. Right? That's the reason for the nervous false laughter?

I'm sure you've had the experience of mistaking a real live person for somebody else, sometime in your life. But here you are, stupidly claiming that cases of mistaken identity don't exist.
Why do you think they are making a mistake?
I don't know if they are making a mistake about the "ghost" in the photo resembling the dead husband. For all you or I know, if the "ghost" photo shows an actual person, it might resemble the dead husband.

But we haven't even established that the "ghost" in the photo is an image of a person's face, yet.

We don't know if the photo was doctored by somebody who supplied it to The Mirror, or by an employee of The Mirror who invented the ghostly tale out of whole cloth, using a photoshopped image.

We have no useful information about this to decide the matter, either way.

This is the usual, boringly typical situation we find ourselves in with everything you post here.
 
This is the usual, boringly typical situation we find ourselves in with everything you post here.

Yes...the typical ad hoc and groundless speculations about sinister plots and ulterior motives to deceive and fool people, always made up by someone who just doesn't want anything like spirits to ever exist. I can always tell when a photo is compelling by the amount of effort and imaginative conjecture put in to explain it away. It shows me my work is not in vain. :)
 
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Yes...the typical ad hoc and groundless speculations about sinister plots and ulterior motives to deceive and fool people, always made up by someone who just doesn't want anything like spirits to ever exist. I can always tell when a photo is compelling by the amount of effort and imaginative conjecture put in to explain away. It shows me my work is not in vain. :)
You've just summed up what's wrong with your bizarre conjectures.
 
Question for paranormal skeptics:

Do you think if you believe in ghosts that you have to believe in God too? Relax.. You don't. While ghosts are certainly real, God is just an outdated storybook character. So you can keep on sinning, just don't do it in a graveyard at night.
 
Yes...the typical ad hoc and groundless speculations about sinister plots and ulterior motives to deceive and fool people...
Not groundless. There are lots of good reasons to be wary about deliberate fakery, given how rife it is in the "paranormal news" community/business. Con men (and women) have preyed upon the weak minded and gullible for centuries, using this sort of nonsense. Only the media have changed a bit.

But I'm interested in hearing why you have such a double standard when it comes t "ad hoc and groundless speculations", Magical Realist. After all, ad hoc groundless speculations are all you ever bring to this place.

Please explain why you have this double standard.
..., always made up by someone who just doesn't want anything like spirits to ever exist.
It is telling that you believe that how much somebody wishes for something (or wishes it wasn't true) has some bearing on whether the thing itself is real or true.

Listen. It doesn't matter how much you want it to be true (or not true). Either it is or it isn't. Your wishing it doesn't make it so (or make it not).

Why should I care whether "spirits" exist? Tell me, Magical Realist. And why do you imagine I would not want spirits to exist?

I assume you're going to trot out your tired old line about how I'm scared that your "paranormal" will overturn my comfortable worldview, or something. What, exactly, is it that you think I should be worried about?
I can always tell when a photo is compelling by the amount of effort and imaginative conjecture put in to explain it away.
"Compelling" is just a personal valuation. Nobody cares what you find compelling, Magical Realist, because you're a clown.
It shows me my work is not in vain. :)
Work? What are you talking about? You haven't done any work.
Question for paranormal skeptics:
Do you mean skeptics of the paranormal?
Do you think if you believe in ghosts that you have to believe in God too?
No. But there's a strong correlation between believing in ghosts/spirits and believing in gods, demons, the devil and such.

It's a wonder that you don't believe in a god or seven.

You believe in life after death, clearly. But as a ghost, what will you be doing? Haunting random churches? Photobombing random people's selfies? It doesn't sound like much of an afterlife, if you ask me.
While ghosts are certainly real...
There is no confirmed instance of any ghost. Not. A. Single. One. Ever.
God is just an outdated storybook character.
Ghosts are an outdated storybook character.
So you can keep on sinning, just don't do it in a graveyard at night.
Why? Will the ghosts get me? (And what's a sin? Please explain.)
 
Con men (and women) have preyed upon the weak minded and gullible for centuries, using this sort of nonsense. Only the media have changed a bit.

Yes...there have been con artists in just about every field...quacks in the medical field, bad scientists, corrupt politicians, shady businessmen, etc. But that doesn't therefore invalidate those fields does it?

You believe in life after death, clearly. But as a ghost, what will you be doing?

Don't know. I just go by the evidence, where ever it may lead. We'll all find out soon enough..

I assume you're going to trot out your tired old line about how I'm scared that your "paranormal" will overturn my comfortable worldview, or something. What, exactly, is it that you think I should be worried about?

You tell me. You're the one fighting tooth and nail against every piece of evidence presented and calling me hateful names over it. Why does it bother you so much? And why get so defensive about it?
 
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Yes...there have been con artists in just about every field...quacks in the medical field, bad scientists, corrupt politicians, shady businessmen, etc. But that doesn't therefore invalidate those fields does it?
It makes a smart person careful about just taking as gospel everything said by anybody calling himself a medical professional, a scientist, a politician, a businessman, a psychic, a ghost-hunter, a ufologist, a reiki practitioner, a minister of religion, etc. etc.
You tell me.
Since you have no idea, I assume this is the last I'll hear from you about my fragile worldview. Is that correct?
You're the one fighting tooth and nail against every piece of evidence presented...
Hardly. I merely pose the obvious, sensible questions in response to crap you bring to the table. The ones that your ignore as a matter of course. See, for instance, your selective replies in our conversation today.

Who do you think you're fooling?
... and calling me hateful names over it.
You mean like "clown"? You act like a clown, Magical Realist. If it walks like a duck...
Why does it bother you so much?
What's "it"?

If you're asking what bothers me about fraudulent people pushing ghosts and other purported "paranormal" phenomena on the general public, I have a few problems with that: 1. It's dishonest. 2. In many cases gullible people are parted with their hard-earned money on the basis of a lie. Often, it's those who can least afford it who are taken to cleaners for the larger sums of money by the hucksters. 3. The pretence that "paranormal investigations" are somehow scientific creates an incorrect impression of how real science works, in the minds of the gullible and uneducated.

That's just for starters.

On the other hand, if you're asking me what bothers me about the way that you push this nonsense, when clearly you know better, the reasons are similar but specific to you. Namely: 1. You're generally dishonest, evasive and willing to tell lies when it suits you. 2. Real gullible people might be misled by your antics into parting with their hard-earned money on the basis of your lies and/or evasions, along with the example you set on how never to engage in critical thinking. 3. Your pretence that you're doing "work" on this nonsense or putting in any effort at all, beyond cutting and pasting stuff you find on one internet site over to a different one risks creating the false impression in vulnerable minds that you are doing something informative or useful.
That's just for starters.

And why get so defensive about it?
Let me be clear. I have no respect for you or your methods. You're an insidious type of clowning troll. At least, that's what you've made of yourself in your time here.

I will always step up in defence of critical thinking, rationality, science and ethical action, among other things. That is not a flaw. It is an admirable trait. It doesn't surprise me one bit that you pretend you can't recognise it as such.

On the topic of defensiveness, I also note that I rarely make controversial claims that need a defence. In contrast, you are regularly making extraordinary claims that you are unable to support. Probably, then, you're projecting your own feeling of being under attack onto me. If you want to feel less defensive, try posting a lower amount of complete crap, maybe? Or consider thinking before you post? Or maybe consider dropping the clown act, because that's really not doing you any favours.
 
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Question for paranormal skeptics:

Do you think if you believe in ghosts that you have to believe in God too? Relax.. You don't. While ghosts are certainly real, God is just an outdated storybook character. So you can keep on sinning, just don't do it in a graveyard at night.
I don't have to believe in either. No pixies. As for sinning, the church does its fair share. They are but human.
 
Question for paranormal skeptics:

Do you think if you believe in ghosts that you have to believe in God too? Relax.. You don't. While ghosts are certainly real, God is just an outdated storybook character. So you can keep on sinning, just don't do it in a graveyard at night.
It's funny that you think reasonable rational people who base their worldviews on facts and evidence would distinguish one fantasy from another with credibility.
 
Yes...there have been con artists in just about every field...quacks in the medical field, bad scientists, corrupt politicians, shady businessmen, etc. But that doesn't therefore invalidate those fields does it?
Whether the quackery contaminates the field or the field itself is quackery, you will be fooled by it. The fields will remain intact for the rest of us.
 
Yes...the typical ad hoc and groundless speculations about sinister plots and ulterior motives to deceive and fool people, always made up by someone who just doesn't want anything like spirits to ever exist. I can always tell when a photo is compelling by the amount of effort and imaginative conjecture put in to explain it away. It shows me my work is not in vain. :)
You don't seem to be trying to determine the facts of the matter but rather create facts that fit your prior belief. I think most people are familiar with the phenomenon of bereavement hallucination, and would consider it in cases where people claim to see a deceased loved one in a stranger's face. This happens both in crowds, where an actual random person is mistaken for the deceased person, or in looking at blurry images in photographs. I am not personally opposed to the conjecture of spirits or other nonbiologic traces of a former conscious person, but I feel intellectual honesty compels me to acknowledge it is only a conjecture and not one supported by what we know of biology or physics. It would, of course, be intensely exciting to discover that spirits are real, as it would call on us to retool and recalibrate a lot of current science. But I try to allow the possibility that the universe simply exists and is under no obligation to make a metaphysical realm of wonder and amazement, or to render me immortal or at least having some nonphysical essence that persists after my physical death.
 
You don't seem to be trying to determine the facts of the matter but rather create facts that fit your prior belief.

Well it's certainly a fact that people witness ghosts and capture ghostly apparitions of dead people in photographs. Those aren't facts I'm making up. And as far as prior belief goes, yes I believe in ghosts. The evidence has convinced me of it over the years, just as it should for every empirically-minded soul. One might even say I know ghosts exist. So if knowledge influences how I perceive the facts, as indeed it does and should for everybody, I'm certainly not going to worry about it.
 
It makes a smart person careful about just taking as gospel everything said by anybody

And it makes an even smarter person careful not to dismiss a whole field of knowledge and practice based on the charlatans that have been exposed in that field. Have you even researched what has been learned in the field of parapsychology over the years? No? Well start here:


I merely pose the obvious, sensible questions in response to crap you bring to the table.

You make the common skeptic's mistake of thinking asking questions about something makes that something questionable. It doesn't. Anybody can come up with unanswerable questions about any phenomena. How does it happen? Why does it happen in this way? Why does it happen at all? etc. But that in no way entails that the phenomenon is therefore nonexistent or even dubious. It just shows that it is largely unknown and in need of continuing exploration.

If you're asking what bothers me about fraudulent people pushing ghosts and other purported "paranormal" phenomena on the general public, I have a few problems with that:

So far you haven't provided a shred of evidence fraudulent people are pushing ghosts and paranormal phenomena on the general public. I'm very selective in what I am posting. All the photos posted in this thread so far are of people who quite innocently captured something extraordinary in them and so posted them online. There's nothing wrong with that. If that pisses you off somehow then that means you are assuming things about people you don't even know. And that's a sign of projection---typically vilifying anonymous people to serve some psychological hang-up you have. Consider this thread therapeutic then for your troubled psyche..:)

You're generally dishonest, evasive and willing to tell lies when it suits you.

Provide one instance where I have claimed something to be true that I knew to be false.

Let me be clear. I have no respect for you or your methods. You're an insidious type of clowning troll. At least, that's what you've made of yourself in your time here.

Ho hum..well that's the narrative you are repeatedly pushing here at least.

I will always step up in defence of critical thinking, rationality, science and ethical action, among other things. That is not a flaw. It is an admirable trait. It doesn't surprise me one bit that you pretend you can't recognize it as such.

Yes..no doubt you fancy yourself quite the crusading knight ever at war slaying the goblins and dragons of superstitious woo. I wouldn't call that an admirable trait though. I'd call it religious zealotry dressed up in the garb of science and critical thinking. Hence your righteous indignation and wrathful hypervigilance against all alleged deceivers, always scanning the horizon for looming threats against your precious little kingdom of neat black-and-white rationality.

On the topic of defensiveness, I also note that I rarely make controversial claims that need a defence.

Really? You do it every time you try to debunk some evidence I post, unwarrantedly accusing the witnesses or photographers of treacherous deceit and greedy motives just so you can dismiss it all. Somehow you seem to think making up some outlandish story about how the photo was really all a clever hoax doesn't need defense or evidence at all. Of course it does. And you never provide any of that. Oh but it's possibly true is it not? Sure, and it's possibly not true as well. IOW, you have provided nothing of substance at all. And so, as Hitchens decreed, what is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
 
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Well it's certainly a fact that people witness ghosts and capture ghostly apparitions of dead people in photographs. Those aren't facts I'm making up.
Well those aren't facts. Facts are propositions about the world like "ghostly images appear on film and the CCD chips of digital cameras" which are then adequately supported by empirical evidence. "People witness ghosts" however is not a fact. It's an hypothesis generated by the FACT that people see ghostly images (which may or may not be actual metaphysical entities). And it's an hypothesis that is weakened every time a captured image turns out to be an optical or digital camera artifact, or a photoshopped prank, or a dozen other ordinary physically generated illusions. If you have ten physical explanations for a ghostly image and only one that explanation that is a nonphysical being that can interact with the physical mechanism of a camera, shouldn't you consider all those physical explanations before discarding them?

 
I know of certain facts that are propositions. But there is another usage for "fact" that refers to anything that has happened.

"fact"
noun

/fækt/ uk

/fækt/
something that is known to have happened or to exist, especially something for which proof exists, or about which there is information.


"People witness ghosts" however is not a fact."

Yes it is. Thousands of eyewitnesses of these things all over the world thruout the centuries. Remember Sting and his wife's ghost experience?

And it's an hypothesis that is weakened every time a captured image turns out to be an optical or digital camera artifact, or a photoshopped prank, or a dozen other ordinary physically generated illusions.

One instance of photoshopping doesn't effect other instances of seeing or photographing a ghost in the least. How could it? If I faked catching some rare species of fish in a lake, it has no bearing on other people actually catching that fish. They are entirely separate events.

If you have ten physical explanations for a ghostly image and only one that explanation that is a nonphysical being that can interact with the physical mechanism of a camera, shouldn't you consider all those physical explanations before discarding them?

Only if the given image has the characteristics of being photoshopped or a camera glitch. If not then we can posit a ghost, especially if it is an image of a dead person in period clothes and was not there when the photo was taken.
 
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One might even say I know ghosts exist. So if knowledge influences how I perceive the facts, as indeed it does and should for everybody, I'm certainly not going to worry about it.
One might, but one should not. In seeking knowledge (as in organized collections of fact which enhance our understanding), an impartial and unbiased stance is important when making observations or evaluating other's observations. Given the extraordinary and paradigm-shattering nature of the ghost hypothesis, and the deep emotions roused by possibilities of an afterlife, it would be especially important to refrain from presuming anything when looking at grainy and amateur-generated photos with weird images in them.

The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool - Richard Feynman
 
The Vat said: One might, but one should not. In seeking knowledge (as in organized collections of fact which enhance our understanding), an impartial and unbiased stance is important when making observations or evaluating other's observations. Given the extraordinary and paradigm-shattering nature of the ghost hypothesis, and the deep emotions roused by possibilities of an afterlife, it would be especially important to refrain from presuming anything when looking at grainy and amateur-generated photos with weird images in them.
That need for being unbiased and objective in our looking at evidence applies as much to the skeptic as to the believer. That's because the typical online skeptic out to debunk everything otherwordly has his own set of personal beliefs (or really disbeliefs) about the world and what does and can happen in it. If we are really to set aside our respective biases, we must confront evidence for an anomalous phenomena with the neutrality of the agnostic who neither believes nor disbelieves in it but remains open to both equal possibilities---that it is real or that it is not real. The evidence or data should itself drive the analysis as much as possible, not our assumptions about what is real and probable in the world.
 
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