Credibility of the Bible

I can envision a God who favors those which disobey his word, those who don't believe, because he knows he didn't give them enough information to rationaly believe in him. I can imagine a sadistic God laughing at the clergy, because they are so gullable. . . I can also imagine myself laughing beside him, before I punch him in the face for being a big jerk.
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If you think about it, why should God favour reason above all other means as the only way of making Himself known? Belief in God is completely reasonable - albeit not by your (postmodern) standards of scientific proof.

Can you clone a sheep, photograph remote galaxies, prove the theory of relativity, all by yourself in your backyard? No, you depend on other people to do the crucial "reasoning". So you can sit back on your comfortable chair IFOTC and quote them. Of course there's nothing wrong with that - I quote the Bible on the same principle. But you make demands on belief according to your own standards.

You have all the information you need to believe, but you can't escape the grip of your postmodern upbringing, which says nothing can be known before proven to satisfaction. THe problem with this is that God exists beyond reason. He is not subject to His creation.

Answer this: is reason the product of an evolutionary process, subject to its own limitations, or is it an inheritance from God, by which we can know Him?
 
Originally posted by ConsequentAtheist
A truly great example. What is interesting about your
quote is that it found in neither the Codex Sinaiticus nor
the Codex Vaticanus, i.e., the two oldest codices of the
Bible. Isn't it wonderful what a good editor can do?
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I think that depends on the intentions of the editor. ;)

Thought these links might be of interest:

Codex Vaticanus

Codex Sinaiticus
 
Originally posted by Jenyar
If you think about it, why should God favour reason above all other means as the only way of making Himself known?
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I can't clone a sheep or launch a rocket in my back yard, no, but I do accept the existence of credible scientific bodies, I know that such bodies are responsible for the automobile I drive, the computer I use at home, and the servers I connect to, even the electricity running through my house. On that basis it's fairly safe for me to assume that sheep can be cloned, even though I've never seen the process myself. So long as cloned sheep are completely outside of my own personal interests, I'll never need more than that. If I were to try to clone my own sheep, however, I would look at the work which others have done, on the assumption that they were correct, and see if I couldn't make it work for me.

I have no "faith" in science. The beauty of science, and the proof that it is can show us what truth is, is the fact that it doesn't need faith, it is completely irrefutable based upon its premise. If you think that by that I mean it can't be wrong, you're grasping at straws, it can be, and if you intend to tell me that it actually IS wrong and somehow has over looked evidence of the existence of God, then please, bring this information to my attention.
 
Mystech-

You know, even if the big guy came down from heaven to address us all like that, I still think I'd have some major reservations about following him.
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I agree. I was more so going on the lines of God establishing his existance thousands of years ago, not all the sudden poping up and saying "Sorry I forgot to mention I exist, I was on vacation at the Horsehead Nebula and forgot to stop by to the armpit of the milky way"

don't think I'd really be inclined to become a christian until I saw an interview with the big guy on Larry King Live, or something, you know something where viewers could phone in and ask him some questions first.
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Hahaha, I like that idea.

I can envision a God who favors those which disobey his word, those who don't believe, because he knows he didn't give them enough information to rationaly believe in him.
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Makes the most sense out of any personal God ideas Ive heard.
 
Personally, I think the idea of faith was invented to
weed out those who truly do not believe in God. Faith
is not the pathetic patchwork, but rather the base of
religion.
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Religion, n 1) The first refuge of the desperate; 2) A convenient way of avoiding such unpleasantries as reality and independent thought; 3) A means of feeling superior to others; 4) A cult which has achieved sufficient longevity, membership, and clout to merit social acceptance." -The American Heretic's Dictionary
 
Originally posted by EvilPoet
Religion, n 1) The first refuge of the desperate; 2) A convenient way of avoiding such unpleasantries as reality and independent thought; 3) A means of feeling superior to others; 4) A cult which has achieved sufficient longevity, membership, and clout to merit social acceptance." -The American Heretic's Dictionary
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Ah yes, The American Heretic's Dictionary, a reliable source.
 
I fail to see the contradiction in Proverbs 26:4. This chapter gives two different conditions and two different responses. Even if this were a contradiction fabricated by some human writer, do you think he would really put two things that contradicted each other in back to back verses? I think not.
 
Originally posted by EvilPoet
Religion, n 1) The first refuge of the desperate; 2) A convenient way of avoiding such unpleasantries as reality and independent thought; 3) A means of feeling superior to others; 4) A cult which has achieved sufficient longevity, membership, and clout to merit social acceptance." -The American Heretic's Dictionary
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Hey, on a nearly unrelated note (I'd have e-mailed you or sent a PM about this, but it seems you've got both features disabled :p) I picked up a copy of Why People Believe Weird Things and wanted to thank you for the recommendation, I'm enjoying it.
 
firingseeds,

I understand them just fine. It appears you
missed the point too. Better luck next time.


Mystech,

While I'm here, thought you might enjoy this quote:

"It is sad that while science moves ahead in exciting
new areas of research, fine-tuning our knowledge of
how life originated and evolved, creationists remain
mired in medieval debates about angels on the head
of a pin and animals in the belly of an Ark."
-Why People Believe Weird Things
 
mystech wrote:
<<<Disarming my enemys, and separating them from the faulty premises which they attack me from is more than just a pass time. It may be recrational here on the Sciforums, but it's good training for life.>>>



Ok dude, if you can't rise above, just know that an atheist arguing with a theist is 99% of the time for no gain, but only trying to impress yourself. You act like it's a huge war or something. It's just people with silly beliefs (both sides). Training for life? If a theist came up to me when if I was with another guy or something, and said "you do know that God hates gays," then I already know that that person is NOT going to listen to whatever argument I make, and that saying it would only be for my own sake. Luckily when something like this happens, I'm able to contain myself because I've accepted the fact that some people are like that, and may never change, much less that I, some gay atheist ignoramous in their eyes, would change them. Also, I don't have to prove anything to them, I'm comfortable with the beliefs I have, and am respectful enough of others superstitions to not try and nitpick. And for the records, something in religion that (I or you) don't understand is faith, the emotional side of the equation. Sure, logic and rationality can get you far, but when you're talking about spirituality, it's a different matter. It's a pass time, end of story.

M
 
Well, richrahl, you're right in one respect, I do view it as a war, and yeah I'll admit that I'm probably a bit crazed, when it comes to this issue, as it is a passion of mine. If you were more up on current events you'd know that homosexuals rights are both being taken away, and seriously argued on grounds of Christian "morals". I take great personal offence to that sort of thing, as it is something that effects me very personally.

I intend to marry some day when I find the right guy, as an atheist religious ceremonies don't mean a whole hell of a lot to me, and as a member of our society, the legal status, and all that goes with it, sure as hell does. I won't be able to do that because of laws based on Christian morals, so if I want to be able to do that I'm going to have to fight at some point, and I fully intend to do that.

This sort of arguing, which forces me to rethink my arguments and strive to make them better can only help me along that goal. I'm a man on a mission to reclaim my rights.
 
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