Quite amusing, stretched, but there's a certain amount of silliness in criticising a person for the faith they maintain, specifically against logic and reasoning to do so, and then referring to their "reasoning". Woody's very faith precludes him from considering all the other faiths to be equally valid (even if they are all equally irrational - or equally rational, for that matter).stretched said:
Creation Museum Scheduled to open in 2007
- Thread starter Woody
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You might say he's almost as much as an atheist as I am.
stretched said:
If He is indeed the king and Lord of the universe, maybe He deserves a little respect from peons like us. By the way -- He was steadfast on the cross, not fickle.
I don't like most of their Gods.
Allah: too violent, virgins in heaven made for sex -- heaven or harem -- geez all based on the claims of a polygamist pedophile named mohammed. No wonder sex is the centerpiece.
Jehova: yeah I believe in the "I am" God with a makeover
Krishna: Hindu -- well I like to eat an occasional hamburger. If the best I can be is a Mcdonald's happy meal then just forget it.
Apollo/Jupiter: I read Homer. His epic tales were fascinating, but did he mean to start a religion?
I do like Jesus. I don't see anything wrong with him do you?
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The religion many atheists and agnostics hold dear is called Humanism It s a religion without a God:
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Quote Woody:
"If He is indeed the king and Lord of the universe, maybe He deserves a little respect from peons like us. By the way -- He was steadfast on the cross, not fickle."
* Ah, if he is indeed a worthy Lord of the Universe, he would have the respect, not sow confusion, or coerce respect via promises of eternal fire.
Alas, neither you or anyone else have any idea exactly what happened on that day, or whether it happened at all. Regarding fickle, this statement: "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” (Matthew 27:46) seems a strange, if not fickle statement, indicating a severe identity crisis. All the standard answers don’t quite explain why god would ask himself why he has forsaken himself.
Quote Woody:
“I don't like most of their Gods. … I do like Jesus. I don't see anything wrong with him do you?”
* Perhaps if we knew more of what Jesus actually said, in his own words, the question could be better answered. But, If you concur that Jesus is God, and by default, then is also the cruel, discriminatory and jealous God “Jehova” of the OT, then the other gods would be like St Theresa in comparison.
Humanism is not a religion, it is a worldview, and essentially it espouses what Jesus purportedly held dear: Love your brother like yourself. From what few words of Jesus that we have, I would consider him a humanist.
Quote Woody:
“Until a funeral when people sober up about the reality of death.”
* Am I correct in saying this is what drives your belief - Fear?
"If He is indeed the king and Lord of the universe, maybe He deserves a little respect from peons like us. By the way -- He was steadfast on the cross, not fickle."
* Ah, if he is indeed a worthy Lord of the Universe, he would have the respect, not sow confusion, or coerce respect via promises of eternal fire.
Alas, neither you or anyone else have any idea exactly what happened on that day, or whether it happened at all. Regarding fickle, this statement: "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” (Matthew 27:46) seems a strange, if not fickle statement, indicating a severe identity crisis. All the standard answers don’t quite explain why god would ask himself why he has forsaken himself.
Quote Woody:
“I don't like most of their Gods. … I do like Jesus. I don't see anything wrong with him do you?”
* Perhaps if we knew more of what Jesus actually said, in his own words, the question could be better answered. But, If you concur that Jesus is God, and by default, then is also the cruel, discriminatory and jealous God “Jehova” of the OT, then the other gods would be like St Theresa in comparison.
Humanism is not a religion, it is a worldview, and essentially it espouses what Jesus purportedly held dear: Love your brother like yourself. From what few words of Jesus that we have, I would consider him a humanist.
Quote Woody:
“Until a funeral when people sober up about the reality of death.”
* Am I correct in saying this is what drives your belief - Fear?
Quote Silas:
“Quite amusing, stretched, but there's a certain amount of silliness in criticising a person for the faith they maintain, specifically against logic and reasoning to do so, and then referring to their "reasoning". Woody's very faith precludes him from considering all the other faiths to be equally valid (even if they are all equally irrational - or equally rational, for that matter).”
* Could you say this in English please?
“Quite amusing, stretched, but there's a certain amount of silliness in criticising a person for the faith they maintain, specifically against logic and reasoning to do so, and then referring to their "reasoning". Woody's very faith precludes him from considering all the other faiths to be equally valid (even if they are all equally irrational - or equally rational, for that matter).”
* Could you say this in English please?
*chuckles* - I have to say, that was quite an amusing image Woody generated there - not dissimilar to Life of Brian: "Hands up everyone who wants to be crucifed somewhere else?" (All the crucifixees struggle trying to raise their arms.) "Right, let's get on with it then!"
stretched - just skip it, it's not important.
stretched - just skip it, it's not important.
Typical liberal assumption (made by religious and non-religious alike), based on insufficient reading of the New Testament and watching too many Jesus movies. In the actual Gospels, Jesus talks about God (describing him as his "Father") all the time, and generally preaches the opposite of thinking for yourself, seeking for yourself, educating yourself, but rather total submission to God alone. (Mohammed was exactly the same, btw). I'm not aware, by the way, that Humanism specifically preaches "brotherly love", only the rejection of authoritarian diktat and the skeptical questioning of everything. That all humanists tend to be liberal-thinking all things to all men is because they derived that view from skeptical questioning of the common authoritarian nostrum that we must fear "aliens" - whether national, racial or religious. But every individual has to derive that belief from first principles, not accept it as a given to begin with.stretched said:
Hi Silas,
Fair enough, to expand, I base that statement simply on the fact that Jesus seemed to rejected authoritarian religion. He insisted for example that the “Kingdom of God is within you” and, “The sabbath was made for people ... people were NOT made for the sabbath” (Mark 2:27). That together with his consistent emphasis on the needs of human beings. I am not intimating Secular Humanism per se, but rather the broader picture of Humanism roughly defined as: “A system of thought that centres on humans and their values, capacities, and worth. Concern with the interests, needs, and welfare of humans.”
Fair enough, to expand, I base that statement simply on the fact that Jesus seemed to rejected authoritarian religion. He insisted for example that the “Kingdom of God is within you” and, “The sabbath was made for people ... people were NOT made for the sabbath” (Mark 2:27). That together with his consistent emphasis on the needs of human beings. I am not intimating Secular Humanism per se, but rather the broader picture of Humanism roughly defined as: “A system of thought that centres on humans and their values, capacities, and worth. Concern with the interests, needs, and welfare of humans.”
It wasn't until after I'd posted that I realised what it was you were really saying - and instead of going off on a half-informed exposition of what Humanism is and isn't about, all I should have said was, "Jesus wasn't a Humanist just because he was humane".
Fear was involved in the original assessment many many years ago -- understanding that death would bring an ultimate end to this life -- realizing that there probably is some kind of afterlife -- and being totally unprepared for it.
The thing that drives faith is what we call "love." Love is a decision to be faithful to something. Faith is like a decision to be married. A person that is truely faithful to a spouse will even die for them if necessary without really thinking much about it.
This is the kind of faith Christ demonstrated on the cross.
Yes, he had a choice, and he knew what was coming. He asked the father to take the cup away from him if there was any other way for humanity to be forgiven of sin. "Not my will but thine be done," is what he said before He was taken prisoner.
Yes, he had a choice, and he knew what was coming
Y'said "steadfast on the cross"
Once your nailed to a tree I suggest your options are limited.
BTW When you say "he knew what was coming" are you saying that his fate was predetermined by god or simply that jesus knew from experience what his likely fate would be?
If his fate was predetermined then Jesus really had no choice at all.
Dee Cee
Y'said "steadfast on the cross"
Once your nailed to a tree I suggest your options are limited.
BTW When you say "he knew what was coming" are you saying that his fate was predetermined by god or simply that jesus knew from experience what his likely fate would be?
If his fate was predetermined then Jesus really had no choice at all.
Dee Cee
Just have to post this on-topic link: http://www.jesusdressup.com/index.html
I'm thinking of ordering the magnet set for my refridgerator so my four-year old will have something to do on Sundays.
I'm thinking of ordering the magnet set for my refridgerator so my four-year old will have something to do on Sundays.
I think Jesus knew they were after him, but not that he intended to be taken.
...Therefore I say to you, if the owner of a house
knows that the thief is coming, he will begin his vigil before he
comes and will not let him into his house of his domain to carry
away his goods. You, then, be on your guard against the world.
Arm yourselves with great strength lest the robbers find a way to
come to you, for the difficulty which you expect will (surely)
materialize.
Gospel of Thomas, Vs. 21
...Therefore I say to you, if the owner of a house
knows that the thief is coming, he will begin his vigil before he
comes and will not let him into his house of his domain to carry
away his goods. You, then, be on your guard against the world.
Arm yourselves with great strength lest the robbers find a way to
come to you, for the difficulty which you expect will (surely)
materialize.
Gospel of Thomas, Vs. 21