Covering Faces VS Covering Breasts

[vslayer]

im not taknig any sides at the moment, but in africa the fixation is more on the arse, than the boobs.

 

[Nineve]

To suggest that women are raped because they dress provocatively is just a cop out for rapists, those unable/unwilling to understand rapists or wanna be rapists.

 

[ReighnStorm]

Do you suppose that rape is a really huge problem in African tribal countries where native women don't cover their breasts?
posted by nineve
To suggest that women are raped because they dress provocatively is just a cop out for rapists, those unable/unwilling to understand rapists or wanna be rapists.

Look, you could never account for all the reasons why men rape! Even if it's a fifth (1/5) of a reason that women get raped for an orgasm then it's still reason enough! :bugeye: I know women who got raped because he wanted to have sex period! I could find plenty of stories on it and so could you ,if you look. But why bother : you're right and so am I.

 

[SpyMoose]

you're right and so am I.

No, you are not right. Your view shifts the blame onto the victem for the rape. "Oh, she was dressed like a slut, she was asking for it, what did she think was going to happen?" Its a complete distortion and its attitudes like that that prevent most victems of rape from immidiately reporting it to the authorities.

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

In the Victorian Era women here had to cover all of their bodies except their hands and face. Words like "thigh" were considered naughty. Even the outline of the leg was tabu, a woman couldn't show any part of her leg even if it was swaddled in inch-thick crocheted hosiery. Legs were considered highly erotic back then.

The opening lines to the song from the 1920s, "Anything Goes":

In olden days a glimpse of stocking
Was looked on as something shocking.
Now, Heaven knows,
Anything goes.

It was indecent to even see a lady's stocking!

The female body has long been regarded as more provocative than the male. Throughout Western history, women have just about always been expected to cover more of themselves than men. In ancient Greece, male athletes performed entirely naked.

Men tend to be turned on by things they see. Women tend to be turned on by touch or by things said to them. I'd say it's a Venus/Mars thing unless someone can think of a significant place and time (post-Neolithic) when it was not like that.

 

[SpyMoose]

(post-Neolithic)

I had all these great paleolithic examples too...

But in reality, if you don't think girls are turned on by what they see, maybe you need a new haircut or wardrobe or something.

 

[Light Travelling]

I once brought this up in an anthropology class and everyone laughed and thought I made a joke.

what I said was something to the effect of: why should it be ok for women to show their faces but not their breasts? someone had said something about it being wrong to make women cover their faces, but what is the difference? a persons face is naturally as much of a sexual organ as their breasts. so why does the western world have a double standard when it comes to covering breasts? I could understand with genitalia, or even if we also made men cover their breasts.

.

We cover our differences - what men and women share is considered acceptable / what is different is considered not.

If we all were naked all the time then nakedness would stop being sexual. - and that wouldn't be much fun would it!

 

[ReighnStorm]

No, you are not right. Your view shifts the blame onto the victem for the rape. "Oh, she was dressed like a slut, she was asking for it, what did she think was going to happen?" Its a complete distortion and its attitudes like that that prevent most victems of rape from immidiately reporting it to the authorities.

Spymoose, I'm a woman....that's not what I said or implied. I'm speaking only on what men think about womens body and what turns them on. Rape happens for many different reasons. All I was saying is that one reason is too much. :bugeye:
Your view is the one that's shifty

 

[Blindman]

in fact I think complete nudity should be legal

There are some very scary humans out there.
Let them go naked but be ready to cover your eyes. I find that humans are both the most beautiful and the most disgusting of living things.

There made for one reason only

Very wrong. Female human breast are much larger then required for the function of milk production. Female breasts have evolved to serve a sexual cue. Shape and size have been more important then function for the female breast.
Just look at the millions of women that have to suffer back pain due to large breasts.

No, you are not right. Your view shifts the blame onto the victem for the rape. "Oh, she was dressed like a slut, she was asking for it, what did she think was going to happen?" Its a complete distortion and its attitudes like that that prevent most victems of rape from immidiately reporting it to the authorities.

This is correct. Being and feeling sexy is not a reason to be raped. Rape is simply a manifestation of the wild human, not to be tolerated in our advance culture.

It was indecent to even see a lady's stocking!

there are many subcultures today that will say the same thing.. It is unadvisable to quote past subculture dogma as past general cultural practise.

We cover our differences - what men and women share is considered acceptable what is different is considered not.

It is not our differences that we cover. It is perfectly acceptable for a male to show his chest, and from a distance the chest is the most defining attribute differentiating man and woman. In our culture the sexes actively display our differences. When was the last time you mistook a man for a woman or the other way round.

If we all were naked all the time then nakedness would stop being sexual. - and that wouldn't be much fun would it!

Desire and lust all bundled ready for the unpacking..

As we grow older the concept of sexual difference starts to wain.. Breasts as well as the face start to deteriorate.
Most women will cover their face in the western world, going as far as surgery to cover their natural humanity. A multi billion dollar industry is built upon covering and hiding.

The modern culture of vanity has evolved into the act of skilful deception, and flaunt it if you got it..


The face is an important communications tool for humans and covering it up especially for subcultures, or sexes is an attempt to reduce the power of these groups. It should be frowned upon. Individuals should have the right to have a mask or not.


Finally..
Clothing also fulfils a practical purpose. Many temperate and tropical cultures have no problem with breasts. Many of the powerful cultures of today have sprung from the harsh climates of Europe, where adequate clothing is essential for the greater part of the year.

 

[ReighnStorm]

Blindman
Very wrong. Female human breast are much larger then required for the function of milk production. Female breasts have evolved to serve a sexual cue. Shape and size have been more important then function for the female breast. Just look at the millions of women that have to suffer back pain due to large breasts.

Again....women's breast have not evolved...womens breast were made to give milk to our children...period.......it just so happens that the sensation creates -what you may think of - as sexual desire. But that is not and never was it's extended purpose...back pain is not caused by large breasts. Back pain in most women are caused by the disproportionate body structure
(small butt, large breast). Majority of black women (original woman) can carry their breast just fine since the beginning of their time.
Some leg pain is caused by walking, some wrist pain is caused by writing, some neck pain is caused by tension. Pain is a part of life, but the body has not evolved at all because of it.

 

[Bells]

Men are the reason we women can't go around publicly naked.....already have enough rape cases happening while fully clothed! Duhhh!

So men rape women who are topless? It's not men who are the reason why women don't go around naked. It is society that prevents public nudity. A woman walking around naked does not make her a homing beacon for rapists. To say so would be giving the rapist an excuse for their behaviour and placing blame on the woman.

I couldn't even finish your post because of the first statement....have you raped before??? Do yo know any rapist?? Are you a rapist???
Guys (with other problems as well) do, in fact, exactly that and more....I never said all men...Women don't rape (unless they're in prison of coarse) Sexual desire plays a huge part in it,yes!

Some men do become so aroused by some women that they rape them because they have no self control and can't take 'no' for an answer, yes you are correct. But that is about the only thing you are correct about. Rape is not solely about sexual gratification. Rape is also about power, demeaning the victim, dominating the victim, punishing the victim. And yes some women do rape and they aren't even in jail. It's just not something that is widely reported and sadly, rarely taken seriously when it is reported.

First there are a number of reason why people blush (embarassment,guilt etc...) second, Batting of the eyelash can also mean other things (lying, somethin in the eye etc....) thirdly lips are made for other things (do not have to tell you what those arefor) fourth, noses are made for smell and sneazing (among other really nasty things)
Those are not organs of sex!

But to some, if not most, they are. The face is one of the things that plays a big part in the sexual attraction one may have for another. A look can be construed as being sexual. People who are aroused are sometimes flushed. Lips can and are used as a sexual tool... surely you're not going to say that a kiss is never sexual or that oral sex is not sexual. As for the nose, yes it is made for smelling and sneezing however, it is what one smells that can be sexual to some. A particular perfume or body odour can be arousing for people.

Again....women's breast have not evolved...womens breast were made to give milk to our children...period.......it just so happens that the sensation creates -what you may think of - as sexual desire.

Women's breasts have evolved from the time they were viewed as teats. The female breast plays a very large part in the woman attaining sexual gratification and in feeling aroused as well. The man also feels arousal when looking at and playing with the female breast.

Women are not cows. If you wish to view your breasts as being for solely for the purpose milking, so be it, but they go way beyond that for other women.

 

[Blindman]

Again....women's breast have not evolved...womens breast were made to give milk to our children...period.......

That is a totally ignorant statement. Why are they so big compared to other animals? Why do chimps our closest relatives have such small breasts? Why do human males have one of the biggest comparative penis sizes to body size in the animal kingdom? (I think it is a bat that has the heftier slong). Why do peacocks have all that plumage?

Sex and then procreation is driven by attraction. It is man that made female breasts bigger and women that extended our penises. Evolution gave men beards and hair loss and women clean faces and curves.

For all we know our move to the vertical could have been driven by sexual pressure.

Some leg pain is caused by walking, some wrist pain is caused by writing, some neck pain is caused by tension. Pain is a part of life, but the body has not evolved at all because of it.

We the human form are not perfect.. We are after all the first to have an upright spin.

I'll let you tell my sister (a doctor) that her natural form was damaging her spin. Explain to her how so much redundant tissue can be removed and yet still provide proven function. I also know two other women that have had breast reduction to alleviate the problems of excessive stress on the spin. There are many other problems associated with large breasts. I would even say it is a congenital problem in humans brought on by the sexual selective propagation of our species in the past.

 

[ReighnStorm]

What's confusing this for me and for people responding is that I'm speaking only of sexual organs themselves. Not what can be used by sexual stimulation

You guys are truly are missing the obvious point. First...you were not there in the bush thousands of years ago to see what kind of breast chimps and gorillas had. The only true thing you can go on is what kind of breast black women have and had in the beginning of the human life cycle. Mostly people breastfed there children more in the past than now and that's what kept the breast small. I should know. I have 3 children, non of which I fed and my breast are a size 44DD. I don't have any back pain at all by the way.
Again, it's about proportion and the lack there of.

 

[Blindman]

First...you were not there in the bush thousands of years ago to see what kind of breast chimps and gorillas had.

No we where not, but chimps and gorillas are still here now, and I’m not talking about thousands of years but hundreds and thousands to millions of years ago.

The only true thing you can go on is what kind of breast black women have and had in the beginning of the human life cycle.

That does not make scene. Negros are just as modern as Caucasians, they are the same as us. We did not evolve from Negros, we evolved from a common ancestor. I have no idea what the average breast sizes are for different races but for humanity as a whole we have the largest comparative breast size. Also breast size and milk production have no correlation, a small breast can produce as much as a large one.

Mostly people breastfed there children more in the past than now and that's what kept the breast small. I should know. I have 3 children, non of which I fed and my breast are a size 44DD. I don't have any back pain at all by the way.

We do breast feed less now then before, to the detriment of our offspring. Breast feeding does not generally reduce the size of the breast. Breast can get bigger, smaller, and change shape after breast feeding, but there is no correlation between breast size and breast feeding. You have very large breasts. I would guess that you have problems when your run or jog. Breast size is effect by general weight gain.

Breasts in humans are a sexual sign post, an indication to males about the sexual maturity and well being of the female, while still maintaining there primary function. There are hundreds of example in the animal kingdom of features that serve no pratical purpose appart from that of sexual attraction. We humans are no different.

 

[ReighnStorm]

I see that you don't know much about real human history. Large breast are as much as genetics as is weight gain.

 

[Bells]

I see that you don't know much about real human history. Large breast are as much as genetics as is weight gain.

*Golf clap to you*... This would have to be about the only thing you've correctly claimed so far. Yes genetics does play a part in breast size. However I do see that you don't know much about evolution since you've made the bold claim that black women (as far as their breasts were concerned) have not evolved since "the beginning of the human life cycle".

And why do you keep trying to change the subject since you made the claim that a woman walking around with her breasts showing would be more prone to sexual assault?

 

[Blindman]

I see that you don't know much about real human history. Large breast are as much as genetics as is weight gain

Opps let me rephrase that.

"Breast size is also affected by general weight gain."

and I am well aware of the role of genetics, in both breast size and weight gain.

 

[Bells]

Err my statement was aimed at reign lol.

 

[ReighnStorm]

by bells
However I do see that you don't know much about evolution since you've made the bold claim that black women (as far as their breasts were concerned) have not evolved since "the beginning of the human life cycle".
And why do you keep trying to change the subject since you made the claim that a woman walking around with her breasts showing would be more prone to sexual assault?

[/QUOTE]
So spell it out for me Bells. Show me proof to deny my claim on both counts.

 

[Bells]

So spell it out for me Bells. Show me proof to deny my claim on both counts.

Oh my god!

You seriously want me to show proof that black women have evolved at the same rate as a white woman? You want me to show proof that an African woman's breast is as evolved as a European woman's breast for example? You're actually serious? You've become the best friend of racists who claim that black people aren't as evolved as white people..:bugeye:

You know damn well (at least I hope as hell you do) that African women are just as evolved as white women and that will include their breast.



Now as to your claim that a woman walking around with her breast showing would invite more sexual assault (again, are you trying to excuse the perpetrator of the assault by saying this?)... You made the claim in the first place and have shown no proof or evidence of your claim but now want me to show that you're wrong. Ok then.

Since you seem a tad confused, might I suggest you have a look at a few of these websites? Now amazingly enough, a woman's bare breast does not appear to invite rape or sexual assault as you so claimed..

Rape Prevention

Rape Myths

I particularly think this site is a beneficial read for you Reighn..

Rapists act without considering their victim's physical appearance, dress, age, race, gender, or social status. Assailants seek out victims who they perceive to be vulnerable.

Rapists look for victims they perceive as vulnerable, not women who dress in a particular way. Assuming that women provoke attacks by where they are or the way they dress is victim-blaming. No person, whatever their behaviour, "deserves" to be raped.
List of Rape Myths from the Sociology of Rape (University of Minnesota)

Hmm interesting isn't it.