Comparison of Religions -- Please Help with Chart

W

Woody

Musical Creationist
Registered Senior Member
I am trying to complete a comparison chart and I want unbiased information. Please help me complete the questions for the other faiths. It would help if you state which faith you are (if any). I am a Christian.

Again, I am looking for objective information. That is the reason I am proposing the chart system. Nobody has presented this kind of evidence to my satisfaction without distortion and half-truths. Let's see if sciforums is up to the task.

In the table, each religion is represented as a group, and I understand there are differences within the sects in each religion. The answers apply to the majority belief held by each religion.

On this particular thread please try to give respect to those who have differing opinions from yourself. I will modify the table according to your input.

Thank you
 
Audible,

how unbiased of you.
Click to expand...

I have reviewed your input, and it has no value in the task laid before you. I do not expect things to improve. Hence you go to my "ignore list".
 
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M*W: Woody, have you ever heard the story about The Emperor's New Clothes? People believe what they want to believe even if it's a lie. Your chart serves no purpose to anyone but you to confirm the lies you already believe. Don't you ever get tired of chasing your tail in circles?
 
It's true, you have drawn up your table in a totally skewed fashion. Your questions are based on your knowledge of the "big 3" religions, and are derived from your beliefs about Jesus Christ, assuming that Judaism and Islam consider Jesus at all important. Maybe they do and maybe they don't. And your questions "Who is Moses", "Who is Jesus Christ" and "Who is Mohammed" are utterly meaningless in Hinduism, Buddhism and the myriad of other religions which you have omitted. Then you ask "Is there a heaven?" and "Is there a hell?" which defines the ultimate consequences without first examining the reasons for either one.

A more correct formulation would be as follows:
  • Name and characteristics of gods worshipped.
  • Does your religious history include a human manifestation?
  • In the view of your religion, what is the nature of said human manifestation, if any?
  • In the view of your religion, what is the nature of historical or mythical figures associated with other religions?
  • Does your religion predicate a continuation of existance after death?
  • What are the consequences of disobedience of the precepts of your religion?
    • Before death?
    • After death?
  • What form does conformance with the precepts of your religion take?
  • What form does non-conformance with the precepts of your religion take?
  • What is the nature of existence after death in the event of obedience of the precepts?
  • What is the nature of existence after death in the event of disobedience of the precepts?
Obviously any one of these answers requires a bit more than a yes or no answer, but it does have the advantage of a) honesty and b) genuine non-predilection for any particular viewpoint in advance. On the other hand, it presupposes religious belief. You'd have to re-write it again only talking about "life philosophy" to include atheists.

The other point to make is that religion is really a personal thing. I know many people who consider themselves Christians, or at least God-worshippers, and would not have the faintest idea what you meant by "Unity with God." Most people think of the afterlife as being a place where they are reunited with their loved ones and are free of the cares of this life for all eternity. I suspect many of them would be horrified at the concept that Heaven is a place where you do nothing at all except sing God's praise.

So, you shouldn't hope for one single response per religion. Instead, empty the form of all answers (including your rather presumptuous ones assuming that heaven and hell are the same thing for Jews and Christians) and build up a better picture of each religion from a multitude of responses from many people of many different faiths. Then (and only then) draw out your table.

The only answer I guarantee you won't get is a demonstration of the truth or falsity of any of the religions so surveyed. Because that truth or falsity is totally outside the bounds of this kind of investigation. But I also guarantee what you will get. You will get a better understanding of all your fellow creatures.
 
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Silas,

This is very helpful information and suggestions you have provided. Well Done! I will revise the table to incorporate it. The FAQS I provided were my first attempt at the problem. Any other pointers to make the comaparisons fair would be greatly appreciated.

I plan to open a web site on this.

I want the table to be a fair and impartial resource whereby a person of religion "X" can understand what a person of religion "Y" believes. It is not here to produce an argument, simply, it is here to let me as a christian understand what another religion believes and vice versa. As you can see from the responses the bias is already trying to work its way into the test. I willl consider those kinds of responses as "Taguchi Noise Factors" in this design of experiments.
 
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Woody said:
Again, I am looking for objective information. That is the reason I am proposing the chart system. Nobody has presented this kind of evidence to my satisfaction without distortion and half-truths. Let's see if sciforums is up to the task.
Click to expand...
If there's one thing sciforums should be up to, it's a few guidelines in objectivity. Glad to have been of some small help.
 
Yes, the questions obviously come from a heavily Judeo/Christian/Muslim perspective, but I can answer them all the same for Buddhism and Taoism.

1. How many Gods do you worship?
Taoism- none, or one, or many depending on which sect
Buddhism- none, or many as with Tibetan Buddhism
2. Who is Moses?
Taoism- A person like you and me
Buddhism- A religious teacher
3. Who is Jesus the Christ?
Taoism- A person like you and me, possibly a wise mystic
Buddhism- A religious teacher
4. Who is Mohammed?
Taoism- A person like you and me
Buddhism- A religious teacher
5. Is there a heaven?
Taoism- yes, you are already there/yes, there is a higher realm/no, not as such, it's a metaphor
Buddhism- yes, but it's called nirvana, which is different than Christian heaven
6. Is there a hell?
Taoism- yes, you are already there/no, not as such
Buddhism- yes, most beings are already there, but there are ways to transcend it
7. How does a person get to heaven?
Taoism- realize nothing needs to be done
Buddhism- meditate, introspection until enlightenment
8. How does a person end up in hell?
Taoism- lack of virtue, conformity
Buddhism- greed, anger, lust, in other words, desire
9. Does reincarnation occur?
Taoism- yes, but not individual reincarnation
Buddhism- most of the time
10. What is heaven like?
Taoism- nature
Buddhism- unknowable
 
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Woody, there's no official Jewish position on Jesus except the believe that he's not divine. For example, there are some Jews who believe Jesus never existed, some who believe he did exist but that his words were wrongly copied by later writers.
 
woody why only five, when theres so many, you could of chose ten or even all nineteen of the largest.
would have been a better comparison:

Number of adherents of world religions:

According to David Barrett et al, editors of the "World Christian Encyclopedia: A comparative survey of churches and religions - AD 30 to 2200," there are 19 major world religions which are subdivided into a total of 270 large religious groups, and many smaller ones. 34,000 separate Christian groups have been identified in the world. "Over half of them are independent churches that are not interested in linking with the big denominations." Most people in the world follow one of the religions listed in the table below. Included is the name of the religion, the approximate date of its origin, its main sacred or ethical texts (if any) and its estimated numerical strength (both in absolute numbers and as a percentage of the world's population.)

These data are based on census or public opinion data. Thus, a person is considered to be of a particular religion if they say that they are of that faith. Thus, about 75% of the adults in both the U.S. and Canada are Christians. Many individuals and religious groups have much more strict definitions for membership. Many conservative Christians believe that one has to be "born again" in order to be counted as a Christian. Using this definition, only about 35% of Americans would be counted as Christians. This difference in definitions between conservative Christians and the rest of the population causes much confusion. Some of the approximately 1,000 Christian faith groups in the U.S. and Canada beli
eve themselves to be the only true Christian denomination. Thus, depending on the definition used, the percentage of Christians in the U.S. are 0.1 to 75% of the total population.


Pie-chart
695466worldrel.gif



Basic information on various religions:

Religion Date Founded Sacred Texts Membership % of World
Christianity 30 CE The Bible 2,015 million 33% (dropping)
Islam 622 CE Qur'an & Hadith 1,215 million 20% (dropping)
No religion * No date None 925 million 15% (growing)
Hinduism 1,500 BCE The Veda 786 million 13% (stable)
Buddhism 523 BCE The Tripitaka 362 million 6% (stable)
Atheists No date None 211 million 4% (growing)
Chinese folk rel. 270 BCE None 188 million 4%
New Asian rel. Various Various 106 million 2%
Tribal, Animism prehistory Oral tradition 91 million 2%
Other Various Various 19 million <1%
Judaism No consensus Torah, Talmud 18 million <1%
Sikhism 1500 CE Guru Granth Sahib 16 million <1%
Shamanists Prehistory Oral Tradition 12 million <1%
Spiritism 7 million <1%
Confucianism 520 BCE Lun Yu 5 million <1%
Baha'i Faith 1863 CE Most Holy Book 4 million <1%
Jainism 570 BCE Siddhanta, Pakrit 3 million <1%
Shinto 500 CE Kojiki,Nohon Shoki3 million <1%
Wicca 800 BCE,1940 CE None 500,000? <1%
Zoroastrianism No consensus Avesta 0.2 million <1%

Notes:
* Persons with no religion, agnostics, freethinkers, humanists, secularists, etc.
We have included Wicca even though their numbers are small because such a large percentage of our site's visitors are of that faith.
We have included Zoroastrianism even though they are small in numbers, because of the immense role that the religion has played throughout history.

Names of the places of worship and titles of local leaders:

Religion Place of worship Title of local leader
Christianity Church, Cathedral, Temple, Mission Pastor, priest, minister
Islam Mosque Imam
No religion * None None
Hinduism Temple Priest
Buddhism Temple Priest
Atheists None None
New Asian religion Various Various
Tribal, Animism In nature Shaman
Judaism Synagogue Rabbi
Sikhism Gurdwaras Granthi (professional reader)
Shamanists In nature Shaman
Confucianism Temple, Shrine, Seowon Unknown
Baha'i Faith House of worship Usually a lay leader
Jainism Temple Priest, Pandit
Shinto Temple Priest
Wicca Circle, Grove Priestess, Priest, Wiccan
Zoroastrianism Atash Behram, Agiyari, Prayer rooms Mobed, Dastur​
 
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Mustafhakofi, SG, Silas, et al.

Thank you very much for all the information. I will rework the comparitive model. I don't want anyone to feel "shortchanged" on the voice of their religion.

I have been in that position before. While reading the World Almanac's comparison of religions, I felt that christianity was grossly shortchanged for example. I understand this can come from the questions that are being asked -- and I do not want to fall into that trap -- hence Silas's suggestion is excellent.

Also, I want the information presented in such a way, for example, that a Muslim doesn't feel it has been slanted against him. Also, the things he feels are most important to his religion should at least be understood by others though they might not necessarily agree with it.

This is not an argument of one religion vs. another. I would not, for example, want to tell a Muslim what he believes because he/she should have the right to speak for themselves. I heard a sunday school teacher tell us what muslims believe, and I felt like it didn't do them justice. He is not a muslim, hence I get a biased view.

SG I like your input on the eastern sects, and I admit that I am weak in that area. I will incorporate it. I think I will defer the suggestion of "what Jesus really said" because it becomes a debating point, and I feel it can hamper objective responsiveness. I don't want somebody defending their religion, I prefer to let them express their religion. The debate can happen after that with as many other threads as you want. Right now I just want to gather the data. Perhaps you can use the results to point out that "Jesus says this and you believe that."

Mustafhakofi,

I greatly appreciate your graphics. I do plan to use the information. Imagine you walk into a room filled with people and the group is an exact microcosm of the world at large. You have the comparative chart in front of you and you would like to understand the religions of the most people possible. Naturally you better start with the religions that have the most believers. The chart is the size of a letter size sheet of paper, so you are limited on the amount of information you can carry.

Likewise I think the chart will become overbearing if every religion is included. I might try doing it, but I will at least start with the big ones, and with those where people have the information.

Thanks much to all. I will work on a better presentation. When I get done, I want everyone to feel like their beliefs have been given a fair presentation. If anyone thinks their beliefs have not been fairly presented, I will try to bring it to their satisfaction. If I still can not bring it to their satisfaction, I will allow their summarizing statements at the end of the chart. The chart system might not be able to satisfy all the objectives, hence I feel footnotes with the appropriate caveats will capture anything that might have been left out.

I have done this type of communication graphics for many years, and it is a formidable task to "boil down" everything to its essense without becoming overly simplistic:

hence I have a delimma: how do I get enough information into a limited space so someone can understand it. I don't want someone blinded to the forest because of all the trees.

Thanks all.

w
 
OK here is the first revision on the chart. I haven't had time to work on the Taoism, Hinduism, Budhism side of the chart -- mainly because I don't know how to answer them under the new set of questions.

Any suggestions from anybody? I could use some Muslim input.
 
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It seems that a comparison chart is only effective when the religions to compare are already somewhat similar.

I think this exercise is an example of the Christian worldview that attempts to define everything in a concrete way, to eliminate the inherent ambiguity and the personal and mystical nature of spiritual practice.

Buddhism, for instance, cannot be defined as a set of beliefs. There is a Buddhist worldview, and guidelines for right action, but simply following them does not amount to Buddhism.

I have read a much better approach in a book on comparative oriental religions. There were in depth histories of every eastern religion (about 20-30 of them!), and at the beginning was a short summary about each one.
 
S/G:

I suggest you add the questions that are relevant to those religions. Do they use a text? Do they believe in an afterlife? Do they believe in the supernatural? What are their guiding principles? What differentiates a "succeeding" Buddhist from a "failing" Buddhist. How do you measure success in their relative terms? etc. etc.

I want to avoid the "Amway" presentation, and cut to the bottom line.
 
An analogy-

How do you make Jazz?
What notes do you use, what chord changes define it? What are the songs about? What's the difference between good Jazz and commercial jingles?
 
The first sentence of The Tao Te Ching-
The way that can be followed is not the way.

Krishnamurti also said "truth is a pathless land".

In a sincere attempt to come to an understanding of Christianity, and other religions, people approach it like they were putting together something from Ikea; step 1, step 2, read this, believe that, sit like this, chant that, but they are doing a great disservice to the original intent, the original experience of those they call prophets.

Did Jesus become wise by following Judaism? Who did Moses follow? What was the method Buddha used to achieve enlightenment? When steps did Mohammed take to become a prophet?
 
S/G

When I encounter people with an argument that says well "you can't compare this to that because they are different," there is generally a hidden agenda involved. Of course everything is different. No two of anything is exactly alike in all respects. Does that mean you can't make a comparison? Somebody will say you can't compare an apple to an orange, and I say B.S. A grocer makes that comparison when he buys product to stock his store. A consumer makes that comparison if oranges are free and apples are expensive. Let's get real.

I don't think it is so difficult:

What are the objectives of "named" religion?
What are the results of "named" religion in the follower? that is to say why would he practice it?
What is the name of the text that helps the said believer practice their religion or is it passed down by word of mouth?
What is the belief of the named religion concerning this life and whatever happens after death?
What is the values the named religion holds dearly if any?

How would "named" religion explain what they believe in "Frequently Asked Questions about their beliefs"

I'd have to say if they can't explain themselves they gotta problem.

Please give me a fair set of questions to be asking instead of making statements like nothing = something, or something = nothing, or 1 = 2.

I do not accept that a comparison can not be made. The challenge is getting it to be fair to all parties involved. There will be some give and take, and allowances must be made.

If there is one thing I can't stand, it's another Amway presentation where you have to listen to two hours of crap to find out someone is selling a pyramid scheme.
 
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