Come and attack Christian belief please.

[answers]

Hay,

I'm sure you all get sick of us Christians attacking your beliefs (who wouldn't) so I'm inviting you all to attack Christian belief. Please choose only one argument/reason each, regarding why Christian belief is wrong (make it your best one). Also please don't send me a 25 page essay on how Christianity is false. I can't eat an elephant whole, just give me pieces I can actually chew and reply to. - I'm not ignorant of evolutionary belief and some terms it uses, but please don't assume that I know everything about science, as I only have a basic knowledge for such things. However any argument based on religious belief or logic or atheistic belief is welcome no matter how complex.

Thanks

CyA's

 

[Cris]

A simple one.

There is no single fact that you can show that demonstrates the existence of God. Why then continue to believe that a God exists? Isn't this simply irrational?

 

[Vienna]

Faith demonstrates the existence of God, and you can only realise the existence of God through Faith.

 

[Pakman]

Greetings answers. Thank you for this excellent thread. My questions are not an attack on Christian, but I would like to learn more about Christianity since there are a lot of stuff I don't agree with it. Thanks.

1. Why is it that you send thousands of missionaries throughout the world and Islam sends none, yet Islam is the fastest growing religion?

2. If man was created after God's image and man is a sinner, would that mean God is a sinner too?

3. Why are women considered spirtually and physically inferior? Well, I know the answer to that, but I would like your opinion on it?

4. Why must you say that Jesus is the only way into heaven? There are other quotes in the Bible which say that there are other ways to get to heaven. Someone told me that it was like that until Jesus made the ultimate sacrifice and then now there was only one way.

5. In addition to question 4, does that mean that God changes his mind?

6. You say that anyone who doesn't accept Jesus as his savior will go to hell. Well, that is unreasonable to anyone who is not Christian. What is your opinion on that?

7. Why do you say Jesus is God when Jesus himself prayed to God for help?

 

[ConsequentAtheist]

Originally posted by Vienna
Faith demonstrates the existence of God, ...

To blather inane absurdities such as this does little to promote respect for theism. Faith in God demonstrates the existence of God no more than faith in the efficacy of witch-burning demonstrates the existence of witches.

 

[ConsequentAtheist]

Originally posted by Pakman
1. Why is it that you send thousands of missionaries throughout the world and Islam sends none, yet Islam is the fastest growing religion?

Was it alsays so? Note: the current superior rate of growth of Islam is no more a confirmation of Islam than was the past superior rate of growth of Christianity a confirmation of Christianity. Religion aside, it saddens me that you are apparently too ignorant to understand this. I suspect that this remarkable ignorance goes a long way to explain your naive religious zeal.

 

[one_raven]

I am not offering up any challenges right now.
I am just posting to say that if you are doing this in an effort to challenge and question your faith and the validity of your beliefs under scrutiny by other points of view, then I commend you (for whatever that may be worth).

I have to say, that many (if not most) of the Christians I have come into contact with, not only do not do this as a general rule, they outright refuse to even consider it because they "know the truth" and don't need to question their faith in God.
That is one of my biggest complaints about Christians in general.

 

[Vienna]

Originally posted by Pakman


1. Why is it that you send thousands of missionaries throughout the world and Islam sends none, yet Islam is the fastest growing religion?

I believe it is because other religions are dying faster than Islam is growing, this is only my opinion.

2. If man was created after God's image and man is a sinner, would that mean God is a sinner too?

No - sin was created by a fallen angel, it's a long story.. lol! Perhaps someone else could explain this one better than I can

3. Why are women considered spirtually and physically inferior? Well, I know the answer to that, but I would like your opinion on it?

In my opinion this was mankind at work altering the Bible to a means, I believe in sexual equality regardless what is written in the Bible.

4. Why must you say that Jesus is the only way into heaven? There are other quotes in the Bible which say that there are other ways to get to heaven. Someone told me that it was like that until Jesus made the ultimate sacrifice and then now there was only one way.

This goes back to the sin question, Jesus took away all our sins so that we may enter Heaven

5. In addition to question 4, does that mean that God changes his mind?

It would be impossible for God to change his mind, for if he did then he would be a liar, which he cannot be.

6. You say that anyone who doesn't accept Jesus as his savior will go to hell. Well, that is unreasonable to anyone who is not Christian. What is your opinion on that?

If you know of Jesus yet do not accept him as your Saviour, then yes, this is the case.

7. Why do you say Jesus is God when Jesus himself prayed to God for help?

God is the Father, God is the Son, God is the Spirit, Three in One. Jesus is part of the Trinity.

Sorry Pakman, I know my answers are rushed and pretty short, I am turning the computer off soon and I know that there are others on these boards who can give you much better answers.

 

[Pakman]

Originally posted by ConsequentAtheist
Was it alsays so? Note: the current superior rate of growth of Islam is no more a confirmation of Islam than was the past superior rate of growth of Christianity a confirmation of Christianity. Religion aside, it saddens me that you are apparently too ignorant to understand this. I suspect that this remarkable ignorance goes a long way to explain your naive religious zeal.

Islam was not spread by force. Today, people pick up the Quran and convert. Muslim people don't go to other people's houses and pass out Qurans and so. Nor do they enslave people saying their religion is superior. But I digress.

 

[Vienna]

Originally posted by ConsequentAtheist
To blather inane absurdities such as this does little to promote respect for theism. Faith in God demonstrates the existence of God no more than faith in the efficacy of witch-burning demonstrates the existence of witches.

This may suprise you but I understand what you mean.

Take a child who has wholeheartedly believed in Santa Claus, then comes the fateful day when he/she realises the truth, that Santa doesn't really exist.

The tearful child is then comforted by the parents saying "There, there"

The child then says "But what about God, doesn't he exist either?"

And the parents say "Of course he exists".

Absurd isn't it?

 

[Pakman]

Thank you Vienna. I like to ask another question.

Originally posted by Vienna
In my opinion this was mankind at work altering the Bible to a means, I believe in sexual equality regardless what is written in the Bible.

So do you acknowledge that the Bible was changed?

 

[Markx]

If I attack vienna's religion, he might convert to atheism.

 

[Vienna]

Originally posted by Pakman
Thank you Vienna. I like to ask another question.
So do you acknowledge that the Bible was changed?

It is only my opinion, but yes I do believe the book has been changed by mankind along it's journey to the present day, especially about sexual ineqaulities. There are too many discrepencies in the Bible too, not forgetting that the Bible is not just one book but many books written by many people, Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the Bible is untrue because the truth is there to be found.

Please don't claim that the books of Qur'an are infallible too, for although the truth for yourself is in Qur'an, it is without doubt words will have been changed and manipulated in that too.

I don't mean intend to offend you, but this is what I firmly believe.

 

[Nehushta]

Originally posted by ConsequentAtheist
To blather inane absurdities such as this does little to promote respect for theism. Faith in God demonstrates the existence of God no more than faith in the efficacy of witch-burning demonstrates the existence of witches.

Statements like this make me wonder if you understand what a witch is, exactly? Would it make sense to say, "Faith in God demonstrates the existence of God no more than faith in the efficacy of persecuting Mormons demonstrates the existence of Mormons"? Or Catholics, or Protestants, or Buddhists, or [insert religion of choice here].

 

[one_raven]

Originally posted by Vienna
In my opinion this was mankind at work altering the Bible to a means, I believe in sexual equality regardless what is written in the Bible.

It would be impossible for God to change his mind, for if he did then he would be a liar, which he cannot be.

These answers strike me as curious...

If you say that the Bible has been altered with by mankind, and you believe what you believe regardless of what the Bible says, how do you know what was and what was not tampered with?

You say it is impossible for God to be a liar, but how do you know this?
From what the Bible says?
But you said the Bible was tampered with... :bugeye:

See what I mean?

In Genesis, the Bible says that God mandated for mankind to not eat the meat of animals:

Genesis 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

Yet in Leviticus 11 God says (among other things) that it is OK to eat meat providing that it is prepared following strict Kosher practices:

1 And the LORD spake unto Moses and to Aaron, saying unto them,

2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, These are the beasts which ye shall eat among all the beasts that are on the earth.

3 Whatsoever parteth the hoof, and is cloven-footed, and cheweth the cud, among the beasts, that shall ye eat.

4 Nevertheless, these shall ye not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the hoof: as the camel, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.

5 And the coney, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.

6 And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.

7 And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be cloven-footed, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you.

8 Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcass shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you.

9 These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.

Then in Matthew 15 and Mark 7 Jesus (who you said is God, although the Bible does not) says that Mosaic law no longer applies:

Matthew15:10 And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:

11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

12 Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?

13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.

14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

15 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable.

16 And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?

17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?

18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.

19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

20 these are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

Mark 7:5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?

6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Isaiah prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written,
This people honoreth me with their lips,
but their heart is far from me.

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me,
teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

10 For Moses said,
Honor thy father and thy mother; and,
Whoso curseth father or mother,
let him die the death:

11 but ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.

12 And ye suffer him no more to do aught for his father or his mother;

13 making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

14 And when he had called all the people unto him, he said unto them, Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand:

15 there is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

16 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.

17 And when he was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable.

18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;

19 because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?

20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.

21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,

22 thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:

23 all these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

Yet you say that if God changes his mind, that makes him a liar.
I don't understand.

 

[one_raven]

Originally posted by Vienna
It is only my opinion, but yes I do believe the book has been changed by mankind along it's journey to the present day, especially about sexual ineqaulities. There are too many discrepencies in the Bible too...

So the question I ask (and wonder if you have honestly asked yourself) is:

Are your beliefs, decisions and lifestyle results of your faith in the Bible...
or
Is your faith in the Bible contingent upon your beliefs, decisions and lifestyle?

 

[Walker]

Why would a "god", particularly one that sets himself up in "holy doctrine" as a parental figure not reveal himself to his "children", and then sentance them all to eternal damnation for not believing?

Don't tell me that it's necessary for one to "prove their faith" by believing in an invisible god in order to be "saved" and delivered into his kingdom. That's irrational and stupid. If I recieved letters from an organization claiming to represent a biological father I had never met (and who is supposedly perfect) that said that I would recieve a great inheritence if I swore to believe in him and follow his written commandments, and moreover, that I would die painfully if I did not believe and obey and surrender my freedom...well, I'd tell 'em to stick it. This "god" and his "bible" are no more preposterous or offensive in nature.

 

[Nehushta]

Originally posted by answers
Please choose only one argument/reason each, regarding why Christian belief is wrong (make it your best one).

Only one, huh? What to choose, what to choose? Well, I guess I would have to give a brief outline of the kind of person Jesus was, based on the things he allegedly said and did (as recorded by his biographers):

Jesus demonstrated no love or respect for his own family, and he demanded that his would-be followers hate their families. He was smart-mouthed to his mother, and he lied to his brothers. He stated that his mission on earth was to cause division within families, and he couldn't wait to get started on it. He destroyed a fig tree for the purpose of impressing his disciples with his mysterious powers. When trying to prove he was the fulfillment of OT prophecy, he had his disciples steal an ass and her foal. Jesus said that the sickness that caused Lazarus to die was all for the purpose of glorifying him (Jesus). Jesus told his disciples to prepare for his arrest by arming themselves with swords (obviously he must have had some reason for this - yes?), but when the time came and one of his disciples actually used his sword to cut off the ear of the priest's servant, Jesus chastised him, saying he must drink from the cup his Father has given him, and he healed the man's ear (again - this was all for show - why the swords if he didn't expect them to use them???).

These are just a few things I have problems with, and I have to ask myself - why would a man who is supposed to be God, and/or the "only begotton Son of God," or even a Messiah, for that matter, do such things? Obviously, he wouldn't.

 

[Cris]

Vienna,

Faith demonstrates the existence of God,

How? What facts do you have to support this claim?

Since faith requires no evidence or proof your claim is equal in value to these statements –

Faith demonstrates the existence of fairies.
Faith demonstrates the existence of the wizard of Oz.
Faith demonstrates the existence of flying pigs.
Faith demonstrates the existence of leprechauns.
Faith demonstrates the existence of any imaginary fantasy one cares to name.

Without something of substance the claims of faith are as useful as a house made of air.

 

[Bells]

Re: Come and attack Christian belief please

Being born into a Christian family and having been brought up to respect all faiths by my parents, one of the major gripes I have with Christianity, and other faiths as well, is the notion of superiority. Each think they are better then the rest and each attempts to insult the other. Why can't people just have their beliefs and be happy with that, instead of trying to abuse others for theirs. Does Christianity approve of insulting others for their beliefs? Not that I'm aware of. Does Islam do the same? Having asked many muslim friends and family members, they don't think so either.

Do I believe that there is something out there that is bigger than I am, definitely yes. But that does not give me the right to preach to others about how bad their individual beliefs are. Christians, Jews and Muslims should just learn to butt out of each other's religions and beliefs and learn to respect that they have differing views on certain things. None is superior to the other. All believe in the same God. So why in the hell does everyone think that they are better than the other? Having read these threads under this topic, I have seen Muslims being called the anti-christ and christians being called dirty pigs and infidels. All that proves is that there are some very small minded people out there who have a superiority complex and have failed to see what their religion is truly about. Doesn't God preach that one is meant to be respectful of others, to not be judgemental of other individuals? Remembering back to the religious education that my parents made me take as a child, I do not remember God ever encouraging people to hate each other. In fact wasn't it the other way around? The way that some denigrate the beliefs of others in here, it only goes to prove that they missed the point of God completely and have only let their PERSONAL hate dictate how they see other religious groups in society.