Originally posted by secretasianman
I might ask whether the quotes are taken from context (the Martin Luther quote, especially...
I, as someone who "deals in universal skepticism" (thank you, F. Scott Fitzgerald), need more context.
Excellent point and the results are interesting. In particular, that this seems to be a reference to what we are discussing elsewhere regarding Paul vs James and John in topic of faith and works. Luther seems to have been very strongly in the Pauline camp. That is, he emphasized faith as the redeeming facet of Christianity. It also seems that the quotation shifts somewhat depending upon the translation... I'm sure we'd need to read the original German to know for sure. While I've been able to find many of Luther's works online the specific ones in questions are sparse.
Here are some variations:
"If you are a preacher of grace, then preach a true and not a fictitious grace; if grace is true, you must bear a true and not a fictitious sin. God does not save people who are only fictitious sinners. Be a sinner and sin boldly, but believe and rejoice in Christ even more boldly . . . as long as we are here [in this world] we have to sin. . . . No sin will separate us from the Lamb, even though we commit fornication and murder a thousand times a day" (Letter to Melanchthon, August 1, 1521, American Edition, Luther's Works, vol. 48, pp. 281-82).
"If you are a preacher of mercy, do not preach an imaginary but the true mercy. If the mercy is true, you must therefore bear the true, not an imaginary sin. God does not save those who are only imaginary sinners. Be a sinner, and let your sins be strong, but let your trust in Christ be stronger, and rejoice in Christ who is the victor over sin, death, and the world. We will commit sins while we are here, for this life is not a place where justice resides. We, however, says Peter (2. Peter 3:13) are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth where justice will reign. It suffices that through God's glory we have recognized the Lamb who takes away the sin of the world. No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day. Do you think such an exalted Lamb paid merely a small price with a meager sacrifice for our sins? Pray hard for you are quite a sinner." (This text was translated for Project Wittenberg by Erika Flores and is in the public domain. You may freely distribute, copy or print this text. Please direct any comments or suggestions to: Rev. Robert E. Smith of the Walther Library at Concordia Theological Seminary.)
http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/luther/letsinsbe.txt
And some other, rather disturbing, references indicating his position:
"When the devil comes to tempt and harass you . . . in-dulge some sin in hatred of the evil spirit and to torment him . . . otherwise we are beaten if we are too nervously sensitive about guarding against sin . . . I tell you, we must put all the Ten Commandments, with which the devil tempts and plagues us so greatly, out of sight and out of mind" (Table Talk in De Wette, 5.188; De Wette was a protestant scholar who collected the most significant sayings of Luther in several volumes).
"Wherever the Scriptures order and command to do good works, you must so understand it that the Scriptures forbid good works"(Luther's Works, Wittenberg ed. 2:171.6).
"If Moses should attempt to intimidate you with his stupid Ten Commandments, tell him right out: chase yourself to the Jews" (Luther's Works, Wittenberg ed., ad.5:1573).
"They are fools who attempt to overcome temptations [to lust] by fasting, prayer and chastisement. For such temptations and immoral attacks are easily overcome when there are plenty of maidens and women" (Luther's Works, Jena ed., 1558, 2, 116; cited in P. F. O'Hare, "The Facts About Luther", Rockford, 1987, 311).
"I sit here in idleness and pray, alas, little, and sigh not for the Church of God. Much more am I consumed by the fires of my unbridled flesh. In a word, I who should burn of the spirit, am consumed by the flesh, and by lasciviousness" (De Wette 2. 22., cited in O'Hare p. 3l4).
"I burn with a thousand flames in my unsubdued flesh: I feel myself carried on with rage towards women that approaches madness. I who ought to be fervent in spirit, am only fervent in impurity" ("Table Talk" cited in O'Hare p. 315).
Not quite what I had expected.
~Raithere
