Christianity without hell?

Carcano

Valued Senior Member
It should be well known that the concept of hell as a place of punishment is unknown to the old testament. It was incorporated into biblical scripture by the first christians, who also developed Satan as its ruler and adversary of God. Jesus spoke of punishment after death frequently.

So I wonder, could christianity have flourished without Hell, and if so, what would it look like.

What comes to mind immediately is that the whole principle of 'salvation' would have to be discarded, seeing as there would be nothing to be saved from.
 
I think that, instead of the concepts of salvation and forgiveness, Christianity would probably be more about halting negative behavior in this life.
 
Christianity without hell would mean no consequence for believers distorting the rules of the religion, and without the fear factor of burning in hell, why would someone convert?
 
Satan is not the ruler of hell, it is a place of punishment reserved for Satan, his angels, and all men that follow
 
hyperqube said:
Satan is not the ruler of hell, it is a place of punishment reserved for Satan, his angels, and all men that follow
Oh , you may be right. Where is the biblical explaination of this? Chapter...verse?

If this is correct, it would mean that Satan could not have any power on earth...as he's busy being punished in hell.

He would have required a day pass from hell to run off and tempt Jesus in the wilderness for example.
 
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Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
 
Christianity without Hell would mean that Christianity would have to live or die based on the merits of its philosophy. Christianity has reached the rotted out state that it has because it decided to cheat this requirement.
 
in reply to carcano

sorry that's ridiculous. lucifer has been granted respite till the day of judgement as such he stands as the adversary. noone has yet been condemned to hell. get it? reserved ie till the day of judgement

in reply to Metakron

absolutely, the church is spiritually dead. jesus himself said:

Matthew 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
 
hyperqube said:
sorry that's ridiculous. lucifer has been granted respite till the day of judgement as such he stands as the adversary. noone has yet been condemned to hell. get it? reserved ie till the day of judgement
Ok, so no one goes to hell including the devil until the last judgement. Is there a biblical explaination of this...I'd like to read it.

Where are all the souls waiting to be cast into hell?
Just running around in ghost form here on earth?

Is it also true that no one has yet gone to heaven?
 
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hyperqube said:
sorry that's ridiculous.

Then you follow it up with:

lucifer has been granted respite till the day of judgement as such he stands as the adversary. noone has yet been condemned to hell. get it? reserved ie till the day of judgement

Just found that amusing..
 
As far as I am concerned Lucifer and God can ram their goddam game up their goddam asses and leave humanity alone.
 
Carcano said:
Ok, so no one goes to hell including the devil until the last judgement. Is there a biblical explaination of this...I'd like to read it.

Where are all the souls waiting to be cast into hell?
Just running around in ghost form here on earth?


from the book of enoch:

[Chapter 22]
1 And thence I went to another place, and he mountain [and] of hard rock. 2 And there was in it four hollow places, deep and wide and very smooth. How smooth are the hollow places and deep and dark to look at. 3 Then Raphael answered, one of the holy angels who was with me, and said unto me: 'These hollow places have been created for this very purpose, that the spirits of the souls of the dead should 4 assemble therein, yea that all the souls of the children of men should assemble here. And these places have been made to receive them till the day of their judgement and till their appointed period [till the period appointed], till the great judgement (comes) upon them.' I saw (the spirit of) a dead man making suit, 5 and his voice went forth to heaven and made suit. And I asked Raphael the angel who was 6 with me, and I said unto him: 'This spirit which maketh suit, whose is it, whose voice goeth forth and maketh suit to heaven ?' 7 And he answered me saying: 'This is the spirit which went forth from Abel, whom his brother Cain slew, and he makes his suit against him till his seed is destroyed from the face of the earth, and his seed is annihilated from amongst the seed of men.' 8 The I asked regarding it, and regarding all the hollow places: 'Why is one separated from the other?' 9 And he answered me and said unto me: 'These three have been made that the spirits of the dead might be separated. And such a division has been make (for) the spirits of the righteous, in which there is the bright spring of 10 water. And such has been made for sinners when they die and are buried in the earth and judgement has not been executed on them in their 11 lifetime. Here their spirits shall be set apart in this great pain till the great day of judgement and punishment and torment of those who curse for ever and retribution for their spirits. There 12 He shall bind them for ever. And such a division has been made for the spirits of those who make their suit, who make disclosures concerning their destruction, when they were slain in the days 13 of the sinners. Such has been made for the spirits of men who were not righteous but sinners, who were complete in transgression, and of the transgressors they shall be companions: but their spirits shall not be slain in the day of judgement nor shall they be raised from thence.' 14 The I blessed the Lord of glory and said: 'Blessed be my Lord, the Lord of righteousness, who ruleth for ever.'
 
Carcano said:
So I wonder, could christianity have flourished without Hell, and if so, what would it look like.

Hard to promise eternal life, then. I think the premiums would go up.

Christianity is dualistic Judaism.
 
hyperqube said:
from the book of enoch: Chapter 22
Ok, so there is a mountain somewhere with underground caverns alotted to the sinners and the righteous, where they wait until the last judgement.

So this means that there are actually no human beings in heaven or hell at the moment...correct?

What about all those including Jews who are righteous but who do not accept or believe in Christs atonement? Are they assigned to the sinners cave or the virtuous cave?
 
Oh wait! The Book of Enoch isn't even in the old or new testament. Its only used in the Ethiopic and Coptic churches. Its apocryphal...not part the standard jewish or christian canon.
 
“Many people are not aware that modern physicists have already confirmed that there should be a minimum of ten dimensions in the universe”

“What this essentially means to the lay person is that since we can only see and perceive three, there must be at least seven more layers to the universe. Each of these layers are currently imperceptible to us, yet they still exist just the same”


Leviticus 27:32 And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.

And according to the Book of Enoch, God lives on the tenth heaven Aravoth.



In the tenth Heaven the archangel Michael led Enoch to before the Lord's face.

ON the tenth Heaven, Aravoth, I saw the appearance of the Lord's face, like iron made to glow in fire, and brought out, emitting sparks, and it burns.

2 Thus I saw the Lord's face,

The first verse of the Gospel of John, as rendered in the original Greek, reads (left to right) as follows:



As may be seen, 'Word' (or 'Logos') appears three times. In the Stoic philosophy, this represented the active principle living in and determining the world; in Christian theology it represents the Word of God incarnate, ie Jesus Christ (John 1:10,14).

Read as a number, 'Word' has the value 373 - a telescoping of 37 and 73, factors of Genesis 1:1 and the numbers we have found to be associated with 'Wisdom'.



The Ultimate Assertion:

FirstV_1_03.gif


EVIDENCE OF SUPERNATURAL DESIGN IN THE DIVINE PROLOGUE

The opening verse of the Judaeo-Christian scriptures must be regarded as the most remarkable combination of words ever written - and for reasons that include the following:

1) The Hebrew words (reading right to left) may be alternatively, and fairly, read as a set of 7 natural numbers, thus:

FirstV_2_03.gif


Above the text we have the values assigned to the letters - following the historically attested scheme of alphabetic numeration. Recorded below are the totals which represent the values of the words (now interpreted as strings of numerals). Observe that the 4th (and central) word is not translated as it indicates here that the following noun is the definite and direct object of the transitive verb.

The verse total (ie the sum of the 7 word values) is 2701, or 37 x 73 (an interesting case of digit symmetry). It is worth observing that the number of letters in this first verse is 28 (2nd perfect number) - the first word having 6 (1st perfect number). All known perfect numbers are even and triangular; 6 (= 1+2+3) is the 3rd triangular, and 28 (=1+2+3+4+5+6+7) is the 7th.

2) There are a number of geometries associated with 2701 - the numerical expression of Genesis 1:1 - thus:
 
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