Christian, who is thy neighbour?

Quantum Quack said:
Why is it believed that God is in some how limited to what humans have written on his behalf.
Jenya[r],
Why do you think God is limited by a book?
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The Bible was not written "on God's behalf" - it is simply a written representation record of what He has done, promised, said and revealed - about humanity and about us. He revealed things to people, who transmitted it verbally and in writing. One example is the Ten Commandments. They were given on a slab of stone, and further expounded in a hundred more laws. What we have in the Bible is a copy of them, and an application of them. The Bible is as much about the people who heard God's word as God's word itself.

The very act of writing something down already "limits" it. But the advantages of writing is obvious: it's a visible, preservable record - and it can incorporate a lot of thought contextual information besides. We are not limiting God by believing what He has done.
 
Do you really believe one should read everything without their context? I bring up the point of isolation everytime in discussion with you, because that's what you do!
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Jenya, I would ask you the same question.

If one puts the entire work of the Bible in context with what is defined as real,
you can see that there is a problem in inspiring confidence in it's validity?
To any one that requires more than just the proof of the written word.
 
Before you get to upset let me put my comment in context.

"The proof of God's will is shown in the actions of humanity" Not just a small part of humanity but in the whole of humanity in all of time not just 2000 years ago."

From the indigenous persons of Australia to the eskimo's of the Artic.
 
Quantum Quack said:
If one puts the entire work of the Bible in context with what is defined as real,
you can see that there is a problem in inspiring confidence in it's validity?
To any one that requires more than just the proof of the written word.
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Then it becomes a philosophical ontological question. Where do we get any proof from? Things like confidence and hope are matters of faith, and the Bible works from that premise - but it doesn't end in it.

Before you get to upset let me put my comment in context.

"The proof of God's will is shown in the actions of humanity" Not just a small part of humanity but in the whole of humanity in all of time not just 2000 years ago."
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That's true in a sense - we should evaluate claims about God within a human context as well. We have no choice but to be subjective. That's why I don't have problems with many versions of the Flood story, etc. But, we can't throw away what has been achieved by that enquiry either. When people realized that they were acting separately from God's wishes, and began trying to compensate for it by rituals and sacrifices, they had to deal with the fact that everything that happens isn't God's will. They did this in various ways and using various philosophies, but the problem remains the driving force behind religion. Humanity had to find out which actions showed (reflected) God's will and which didn't.

And this simply cannot be done in isolation from God. If God doesn't tell us at some point what He considers progress and what He considers sin, we can never know where we stand. The problem now is that those who start from the premise that God doesn't exist have to believe that nothing has been said, and ironically, as a result exclude themselves from the possibility of revelation; and those who have the approach you suggest above: that we should listen to everything, can only think what might have been said is lost in the noise of human voices.

God's Word does cut across nations and cultures in its application and its truth - but its source is only Him, and its entry point starts where He chooses. A blood transfusion needs to be administered only topically, with blood of the same type - and the heart spreads to the whole body. A single impurity can be fatal. From the heart of God to the heart of man, there is only one route, and only one acceptable blood type - exactly because it needs to be compatible with all life.

Strange as it may sound, my confidence in the Bible does not come from the Bible. If that was all I had, I would really have had nothing. It's not true because it's written down, it was written down because it's true. But that's not all there is to it.
 
I don't wish you jenya to think I don;t respect your position......cause I do.....

I look around were I live, the cheapest part of town, We have over 100 cultures, a major psychiatric hospital and all kinds of serious societal problems.

I see the work that the predominantly "Christian" volunteers do here. I see the smiles they put on peoples faces. I see the hostels they look after and the food they dish out every day of the week. But most of all I see the compassion they express as a statement of their humanity and faith in humanity.

Whether they feel God inspired or just that is right for them to do I do not really care. All I know is that they are good people doing their best.

Now if being of religious values promotes this sort of compassion you will get no arguement from me. But this is not the will of a bible at work here. This is God in action and that is the distinction I draw.

The bible may be a vessel that persons can learn from but it is their actions that demonstrate God's will and not his words.

Do you see where I am coming from with these words?

When people can put the bible down for just a while and do something with their faith that is when we see proof of God's existence.

Some will argue that this is just love and humanity and etc etc.......fine I really don't care what you call it.

But when the Salvation army soldier is prepared to support a multiple murderer in his time of need I must admit if I had a hat I would take it off.
 
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But this is not the will of a bible at work here. This is God in action and that is the distinction I draw.

The bible may be a vessel that persons can learn from but it is their actions that demonstrate God's will and not his words.

Do you see where I am coming from with these words?
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I agree with you completely. The worst way of abusing the Bible is removing it from its application, and separating it from God's will. But that doesn't mean the Bible ever stops being God's word. The simple fact is that God not only commands love, He see it as our duty. The role that Scripture originally played was to represent that duty - it was a reference for it (hence all the laws and regulations in the OT), but with Christ humanity received a new reference for that duty - a living example. We're not limited by Scripture - or limitating God by Scripture - we're limited (unlimited, rather) by Christ. He "freed us from the law", not to take away what the law stated - to fulfil its requirements.

What was originally only available to God, and after that only by law, is now written on our hearts. Not that it wasn't before, but without a reference the only "criterium" was faith in God; that faith has now been justified.
 
Jenya can I ask you a simple question?

"Can a person be a Christian with out knowing of the Christ?"
 
QQ,

They wouldn't know how to call themselves Christian, would they? :) But technically, yes... like Abraham and all those before Christ, they would be aware of their own sin, the certainty of God's salvation and love (not any God, mind you) by faith, without being able to put a name to Him or knowing by what means He had effected it. But in the world we live in today, this becomes increasingly unlikely.
 
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Jenya, is it posiible to write a simple list in point form of what the Christ was trying to inpsire in man with regards to his relationship with his fellow man?
I think "Love thy neighbour" would be one of them.
 
Actually, Jesus quoted that from Lev.19:18. I think that also says something about what He was trying to inspire... but here's all of it:
Matthew 22:36 "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law? [i.e. 'that which governs our conduct on earth']" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'[Deut.6:5] This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets [i.e. the Hebrew Scriptures] hang on these two commandments."​
 
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