Christian Nationalism and School Boards

[C C]

Jesus-prescribed type generosity was supposedly voluntary and stemming from local community. Contrasted to Marxist revolutionaries exploiting altruism and radical egalitarianism to rally the proles, overthrow goverment, place the new Lord Protectors in power with the co-hort intellectual class (intelligentsia) as its secular priests... with some brutal cult-personality figure inevitably dominating or stealing the show from the pretentious white knights.

In between the two: State-run bureaucracy capitalizing on do-gooderism to incrementally build-up dependence on and empowering centralized government -- introducing tax burdens that might mildly diminish whatever traditional, local, voluntary efforts to deal with human welfare problems -- but certainly not crippling the latter by any means.

Of course, organized Christianity also originally pioneered various forms of opportunistic do-gooderism. It's always a viable racket for somebody -- religious, political or secular.
_

 

[TheVat]

Yep, you can't always compare a spiritual approach with a specific ideology. Jesus preached something probably something more individual and anti-materialistic than any overarching economic philosophy out there. And generally not concerned with anything of physical value. Though he probably would have come out against systems of private land ownership, where the land tended to end up in the hands of a wealthy few. Given his identification with the poor and oppressed groups of his society, I could see him being okay with something almost pre-economy like a barter system. I'll make you a chair for some mutton and a bag of your fine figs.

 

[Jeeves]

Or just being a good human, a humanitarian, a good Samaritan, a Christian even, though Jesus would not know what that was.

Right: in MAGA parlance, an extreme radical Marxist. Everything the so-called Christian right in America disapproves.

 

[billvon]

Ok so absolutely nothing to do with modern communism got it.

You keep using that word the way right wingers use "socialist" i.e. "that which is bad." That's not what it means. It means an economic system based on common ownership and management of property. You can do it without any government at all; you can do it with a democracy; you can do it with a dictatorship. The common thread is that communal ownership of property.

Which Jesus was for.

Jesus of course was not concerned with this world, he thought it was coming to end soon.

He seemed pretty concerned with the secular world, based on all the pronouncements he made about how people should act.

So giving away wealth was squaring things with god not being a proper communist.

Telling people to share everything they had is preaching communism. By definition.

 

[Jeeves]

Does anyone know whether this :
John 3:34 "A new commandment I give to you, that you should love one another. As I have loved you, so you also should love one another."
made it onto any of those school posters featuring the OT commandments?
I don't think they have much use for Jesus.

 

[Pinball1970]

You keep using that word the way right wingers use "socialist" i.e. "that which is bad." That's not what it means. It means an economic system based on common ownership and management of property. You can do it without any government at all; you can do it with a democracy; you can do it with a dictatorship. The common thread is that communal ownership of property

That is not my point, Jesus may well have ticked a lot of those boxes but that was absolutely nothing to do with his motivation.

Is there anything regarding being a good Jew and following Mosaic law regarding communism?
What about Kings? Did Jesus think he was going to be a king? How does that fit with communism?

 

[Pinball1970]

. It means an economic system based on common ownership and management of property

Jesus was concerned with that?

 

[parmalee]

Does anyone know whether this :
John 3:34 "A new commandment I give to you, that you should love one another. As I have loved you, so you also should love one another."
made it onto any of those school posters featuring the OT commandments?
I don't think they have much use for Jesus.

As far as models for behavior go, it would seem that Paul--a guy who probably just made way too much out of a seizure, and turned into a complete asshole--kinda supplanted Jesus for many.

"He could've played guitar better than Hendrix
He could've told the future
He could've baked the most delicious cake in the world
He could've scored more goals than Wayne Gretzky
He could've danced better than Barishnikov
Jesus could have been funnier than any comedian you can think of
Jesus was way cool

He told people to eat his body and drink his blood
That's so cool
Jesus was so cool
But then some people got jealous of how cool he was
So they killed him
But then he rose from the dead
He rose from the dead, danced around, and went up to heaven
I mean, that's so cool
Jesus was way cool

No wonder there are so many Christians"

-- King Missile, "Jesus Was Way Cool"

 

[Jeeves]

That is not my point, Jesus may well have ticked a lot of those boxes but that was absolutely nothing to do with his motivation.

And this has nothing to do with whether his teachings make it into the right-wing American schools.
So let's call it a draw and leave off.

 

[parmalee]

Jesus of course was not concerned with this world, he thought it was coming to end soon.

By most accounts, Jesus was a pretty grounded fellow.

Marc Maron once characterized the Jewish relationship to god as guy looking skyward, throwing his arms up and going, "Now what the fuck do you want?" While the Christian relationship is more like a guy cowering at the sheer awesomeness or assholeness of the lord. Jesus was more the former.

Paul, keen strategist and businessman that he was, probably saw that the oppositional-defiant type probably wasn't the best model when you're trying to cultivate addicts, followers or whatever.

 

[billvon]

Jesus was concerned with that?

Jesus was concerned with getting everyone to share their property for the common good, yes. He spoke on it several times.

Jesus may well have ticked a lot of those boxes but that was absolutely nothing to do with his motivation.

I am not speaking to his motivation for being communist, just that the behavior he espoused was.

 

[TheVat]

Telling people to share everything they had is preaching communism. By definition.

That's how it's usually defined, yes. In the matrix of politics, it is more about material goals than Jesus would have been. Perhaps call him "communist with a small C." So what he preached could as well be folded into some form of anarchism, where community matters but not any kind of leadership hierarchy.

I think of aluminum extension ladders, in this context. No one needs the status or wealth of owning an extension ladder, so every block should just have one that's shared by all. Maybe a sign up sheet during late fall when everyone is getting leaves out of their roof gutters. As Jesus said, thou shalt leave most of the aluminum in the ground and share thy one ladder, a ladder unto heaven. Something like that. It was hard to hear everything he said during the Sermon on the Mount. There was also something about cheesmakers (though I think he meant purveyors of dairy products generally).

 

[Pinball1970]

I am not speaking to his motivation for being communist, just that the behavior he espoused was.

And his claim to be a king? That does not have a very communist feel to it.

 

[Sarkus]

There was also something about cheesmakers (though I think he meant purveyors of dairy products generally).

"Oh, it's blessed are the MEEK! Oh, I'm glad they're getting something, they have a hell of a time."

 

[Pinball1970]

By most accounts, Jesus was a pretty grounded fellow.

He thought the world was coming to an end during his life time.

"This generation will not taste death...."

 

[Pinball1970]

And this has nothing to do with whether his teachings make it into the right-wing American schools.
So let's call it a draw and leave off.

Yep.
Who Jesus was what he did and said is the task of NT scholarship.

Regarding children's education, there is nothing wrong with teaching them about scripture, about Jesus BUT from a modern scholarship perspective.
Not preaching.
Same with Moses, Paul, Mohammed and Buddah.

 

[Jeeves]

Same with Moses, Paul, Mohammed and Buddah.

Not gonna happen! Just Moses and Genesis.

 

[Jeeves]

And his claim to be a king? That does not have a very communist feel to it.

He didn't claim any such thing.
It was thrust upon him by both enemies and followers. "In fact, he went into hiding when he was in trial before Pilate. Pilate says, "Are you the king of the Jews?" Jesus refused to accept the title: "You have said it, not I." Jesus rejected the whole idea of being a king and calls us also to reject this idea and to think of ourselves as being followers of Jesus, a king."

 

[billvon]

And his claim to be a king? That does not have a very communist feel to it.

Again, you are conflating governmental systems with economic systems. They are not the same, and Jesus wasn't trying to make any statements about either one.

 

[Pinball1970]

He didn't claim any such thing.
It was thrust upon him by both enemies and followers. "In fact, he went into hiding when he was in trial before Pilate. Pilate says, "Are you the king of the Jews?" Jesus refused to accept the title: "You have said it, not I." Jesus rejected the whole idea of being a king and calls us also to reject this idea and to think of ourselves as being followers of Jesus, a king."

You need to read Mark again.