Bells,
However, what I do not understand is the blind faith in the big father figure in the sky who's there to make things all better.
I am not aware of any bona-fide religion that describes God as being that lives in the sky (not a material sky anyway) and makes all things better, and as such is to be worshiped. Maybe you can enlighten me on such religious scripture.
I once hoped to have children, but that was a false hope.
It was not a false hope, it is a natural hope for most females. It can happen and it does. The false hope comes when you knowingly cannot have children naturally, but wish to.
Life is not uncertain, it is very certain.
You just need to understand that you are not in control of life, you do not have a say in when you are born or when you die. The only control you have, is how you choose to live your life while you are alive.
Belief in God is uncertain, because we don't know if God exists.
We know we exist. We know we were created by certain process, namely procreation. We know if something is created it must have a creator. We know that for every effect there must be a cause. We can see design in all aspects of life whether simple or complex. We know that organism work together in such a way, that to put it down to randomness and chance, is very dodgy to say the least. When you put these things together, belief in God is not as uncertain as you are probably led to believe.
If he/she/it does exist, then he's got a sick sense of humour.
You see it that way because you are an atheist, and perhaps you don't want to believe in God.
Do I hope that God exists. Yes I do because then the people who believe so blindly in him/her/it wont have felt as though their whole life or belief system was a waste of time.
How very altruistic of you.
Life is an achievement, not our children.
An achievment of what, exactly?
That's what religion is, an interpretation of a belief in an entity.
No.
Religion is method of understanding your belief in God. Belief in God is a natural process, not that you believe in God because someone else believes in God. Every human being believes in something.
It's not a matter in believing in the uncertain, it's more a matter of believing in what they deem to be certain.
Certainty is relevant. Some people are certain in there beliefs, some people aren’t. If someone is certain of something, it is because they have reason, likewise if they are uncertain. Whether you agree with their certainty or not, is irrelevant.
Are uncertain people “certain” of their uncertainty, or are they uncertain as to whether they are uncertain or not?
Where does this security come from?
Not even income taxes and death?
Life itself is not assured.
Life is assured, what is not assured is the life you want.
How sure are you that God exists or that your religion is right?
That part of life does not seek assurance, it because whatever will be will be, which is in itself, assurance. As regard to which religion is right, it doesn't matter. What matters is how you live your life. When you take an exam, it doesn't matter whether the subject is right or wrong, only how you answer the questions. If you sincerely follow the instructions of a bona-fide religion, then what is right or wrong will be revealed, through the purity of you actions.
Are you so insecure that you need the father figure in the sky to watch over you and make sure everything is going to be ok?
I know of no-such father figure.
Is the belief that there is an all conquering God who watches over us based on reality? Or is it based from something that we have been taught by religion.
Belief is reality and so is religion, it only depends on how the individual uses or misuses them. To regard them as fantasy is simply only a denial. You are a good example, you deny God by putting Him in the same category as Father Christmas or a toothfairy, and disregard such great literatures such as Bhagavad Gita, Bible and Koran. Choosing to see them as literature created by simple uncivilised people who were desperate to give some kind of explanation of the themselves and the world around them.
I've always found that people who believe in God and religion are blind to any other possibility.
By "any of possibility" i take it you mean the atheistic-scientific approach?
If so, you are deeply misinformed.
Look at the creation vs evolution debate as an example.
So because people believe the universe was designed, they are blind to any other possibility. What you fail to realise is that, creation entails every possibility, even evolution. The evolutionists are the ones who are blind to any other possibility, their real interest is in trying to prove God does not exist, by initially finding a way to make His existence irrelevant, and they are prepared to lie, to achieve this goal, as we have seen, and are seeing.
One may be rational in life and everything about life, but when it comes to a belief in God, how is it rational if the entity is unknown, unseen, unheard?
That is why it is a belief. A belief is not bound by logic or even reason, it is possible to believe anything. Even that
abiogenesis[/b] and macroevolution are scientific fact, despite the complete absence of material evidence. The thing with belief is, in order to act accordingly, there must be some reason, it must impact on your personal life in some way. Then you rationalise the impact, you look for evidence which gives justification. It is very personal. You and I may agree on somethings and disagree on others, there is no universal construct which says we must all agree on the same thing. But through our intelligence capabilities, we can understand that this is the case, and is actual knowledge.
God can be seen, known and heard, but it is not easy, especially from a western perspective. It demands discipline, humility, compassion, equanimity and empathy, none of which are promoted. In fact we see that the opposite is promoted religiously, and as such we are moving further away.
If there were no religions, and therefore no Bible, Quran, etc, would people believe in the same God? Having regarded history, my guess is that no they wouldn't.
It can be nothing more than a guess. I may say they would, but it really has no meaning or point. Because it is actual not static. I don't like licquorish, maybe you do. If there was no licquorish, would you still like it? Probably not. But it doesn't mean your taste has changed and it is because of your taste sensation why you like it. The reality never changes.
I would expect to see something... anything actually. More than what I'm seeing today.
What would you expect to see, that is the question?
You should know.
If such a being existed, then he/she/it would have to be one twisted son of a bitch for allowing the world and humanity to have denigrated to the point that it has today.
Are you assuming this denigration comes from God?
But at the moment, I rather believe in something that is tangible.[/b]
That’s fair enough, I don’t know of anyone who does not share that same belief. But that is a basic belief and I’m sure we needn’t go down that road, as we are both certain. However there are beliefs which are not so basic, not so rational, and it is these beliefs which attracts us to forums like this. I believe in the tangible and I believe in God. If you do not understand how the two can be believed without any conflict, then inquire, don’t assume. This is how we learn.
But for their sake I have a quiet wish that something does exist out there, because if one day they find out that it doesn't, those believers will feel as though they are robbed.
You make it sound like some kind of investment deal. Do you have any idea what sustains belief in God?
That is why I have a problem with the 'blind faith'. Because those who have such beliefs usually end up refusing to accept that it could just not be.
I’m afraid it doesn’t work like that, it is not some scientific experiment, nor is it a fad. It is very personal. It is a connection that impacts upon your very existence, which is why it cannot be scientifically tested any more than love between a mother and child could be. Of course there are people who follow blindly, I’m not disputing that. But for the purpose of this discussion I am interested in people who have a reason which can be intellectualised, at least to a point.
If God exists, then fine, if God doesn't exist, then fine also. I couldn't really care either way. It's those who care deeply about it that have me somewhat concerned.
If God exists, you should care. It is irresponsible of you not to. And why should another persons belief be of any concern?
True. If there were no religions, I wouldn't be sitting here discussing this with you.
Take that statement to its ultimate conclusion and you get, if there was no God, we wouldn’t be here discussing this.
And I quite agree.
Jan Ardena.
