Christain God vs Muslim God

[wynn]

There are alot of people for whom religious affiliation isn't a problem, and I don't see anyone trying to understand why or how this is so. Could it be that politically, people getting on with their lives, and respect that other people think and act differently to them, is not an option?

The majority of people in this world wouldn't be bothered about differences, if it wasn't a constant subject raised by the minorities. The issue isn't ''religion'', it's politics.

Not just by minorities, but also by proponents of tolerance and "non-violent communication."

Children are taught in school, in classes on "world religions," that there is religious diversity and that religious diversity can be and often is a problem.

It seems that many of the efforts to introduce tolerance and eliminate inter-religious strife bear just the opposite result.

I am quite sure that if people wouldn't know there are different religions, they wouldn't pay much attention to the differences and would shrug them off, not giving them much thought, and mind their own business.

But once there develops a culture of discourse on the topic of religion and religious diversity and everyone is expected to have a definitive opinion on these matters, backed with empirical and/or philosophical evidence (or risk being branded a redneck and simpleton),
this is a recipe for confusion, conflict, intolerance and a lot of unnecessary suffering.

There are things of which ignorance indeed is bliss.

 

[Yazata]

The interesting thing for me is that if the two Gods or three Gods are the one and the same God then we can only conclude that the disharmony between religious groups is man made and not God made.

It's still possible to say that the one God that all three religions believe they worship has in fact revealed himself to mankind, and that only one of the three religions correctly transmits that revelation. It's possible for each of the three religions to dismiss the other two religions' claims as corrupted by fantasies, distortions or failures to recognize the truth. In fact, that's what we do see.

The situation looks a little different if we accept (as I do) the atheist proposition that nobody's use of the word "God" succeeds in referring to a real existing divine object. In that view, your phrase "God made" doesn't apply and all religious differences are man-made, because all religious traditions are man-made.

As suggested the claim to be more correctly following the will of God is pure egocentricism and nor about truth persee as all Gods are the same God.

Not all gods, only the God (see why I don't like capitalizing it?) that's portrayed in the Hebrew scriptures and in subsequent Christian and Muslim addenda to them. None of these three religions have traditionally included non-Hebrew-derived Vishnu or Shiva in their scheme and would historically have dismissed them either as man-made fantasies or as demonic lies.

And what's more, Judaism, Christianity and Islam think that God is a lot more than a deist's philosophical first-cause abstraction. They all believe that God really has revealed himself to humanity and that it's supremely important that humanity pay attention to that revelation. Christians would have trouble remaining Christians if they shrug off Jesus Christ, his death and resurrection, and the salvation that he supposedly offers. Muslims would have trouble remaining Muslims if they shrug off God's supposed revelation to Mohammed in the Quran. Those kind of beliefs define what these religions are.

 

[Big Chiller]

Why is this thread just about the Christian and Islamic God and not also Jewish God maybe it could be about God of all three Abrahamic faiths.

 

[Big Chiller]

Christian god vs. Muslim god? Both of them apparently hate homosexuals, and one of them doesn't like to look at women, think about it.

They hate homosexuals well do they have to gain anything personally from hating homosexuals or were they forced to hate homosexuals would you not want to be careful before you view God in human terms? One of them doesn't like to look at women which one or did one of them simply tell men to not look at women except for the woman whom the man is married to.

 

[Quantum Quack]

Why is this thread just about the Christian and Islamic God and not also Jewish God maybe it could be about God of all three Abrahamic faiths.

Good question and great solution!

 

[kx000]

There is no "Abrahamic" faith, only faith. Just like there is no hope in one basket. Faith is what it is.

 

[spidergoat]

It's still possible to say that the one God that all three religions believe they worship has in fact revealed himself to mankind, and that only one of the three religions correctly transmits that revelation. It's possible for each of the three religions to dismiss the other two religions' claims as corrupted by fantasies, distortions or failures to recognize the truth. In fact, that's what we do see.

Please explain how God revealed himself and how one of these three religions correctly transmits that information.

 

[Yazata]

Please explain how God revealed himself and how one of these three religions correctly transmits that information.

I don't know. You're gonna have to ask them, Goat.

I was just questioning this, "if the two Gods or three Gods are the one and the same God then we can only conclude that the disharmony between religious groups is man made and not God made".

My point is that each of the three religions, Judaism, Christianity and Islam, thinks that they are worshipping the same God. They all think that God has revealed himself to humanity. But each of the three emphasizes a very different set of purported revelations. It's the difference between those beliefs about how the single God has revealed himself: Hebrew scriptural revelation only vs. Jesus Christ's redemptive drama, vs. God's revealing the Quran - that constitutes the fundamental difference between the three traditions.

They all believe that the single God that they all worship has been communicating and that it's vitally important for the recipients of God's attentions to heed the message... but they can't quite agree among themselves on what the message was.

 

[wynn]

Are the Jews, Christians and Muslims the same people?

In their respective scriptures, what does God say about each of these people?

 

[spidergoat]

.I was just questioning this, "if the two Gods or three Gods are the one and the same God then we can only conclude that the disharmony between religious groups is man made and not God made"

You are right to question that. I would suggest that the disharmony among these religious text that pretend to speak for the same god actually point to a non-existent god. It means all of religion is man-made because why would God allow such different revelations of his own nature and wishes?

 

[wynn]

You are right to question that. I would suggest that the disharmony among these religious text that pretend to speak for the same god actually point to a non-existent god. It means all of religion is man-made because why would God allow such different revelations of his own nature and wishes?

Because He is magnanimous and He reveals Himself even to all kinds of people, as long as they beg Him for it.
The particular revelation then of course differs according to whom He reveals Himself to.

 

[spidergoat]

That makes no sense. It implies that the revelation comes from the person, not a unique and distinct source. The same standards apply in a courtroom.

 

[wynn]

Uh. Think of the story with the blind men and the elephant.

 

[spidergoat]

One presumes a revelation is better than the flailings of blind men, especially when they are so specific about certain things.

 

[wynn]

God is said to reveal Himself to people according to their abilities and desires.

Since different people have different abilities and desires, it is no wonder that when they desire to receive a revelation of God, it differs from one person to another.


Standard Western atheists and many theists, too, assume that all people are generally the same, have the same abilities and desires, at all times. This is an unrealistic assumption.

 

[spidergoat]

I see no special difference in the abilities of Mohammed compared to Moses or Jesus, in fact they all came from remarkably similar cultures. They all understood their language enough to communicate subtle philosophical concepts. Additionally one would have to ask why did God stop with a couple of bronze age middle easterners? Where is the biblical equivalent in South American? ...or Asia? ...or Europe?

 

[wynn]

I see no special difference in the abilities of Mohammed compared to Moses or Jesus, in fact they all came from remarkably similar cultures.

Are the Jews, Christians and Muslims the same people?
In their respective scriptures, what does God say about each of these people?

Additionally one would have to ask why did God stop with a couple of bronze age middle easterners?

Did He?

Where is the biblical equivalent in South American? ...or Asia? ...or Europe?

Why should the Bible be treated as the norm of what makes for a "proper revelation"?

 

[spidergoat]

Are the Jews, Christians and Muslims the same people?

Yes, pretty much they are, they all lived in the same place and probably shared a great deal of their DNA.

In their respective scriptures, what does God say about each of these people?

Exactly what one would expect someone from a certain culture to say about themselves, and nothing that could only have come from an outside source.

Did He?

Yes. The religious ideas of other cultures are unique.

Why should the Bible be treated as the norm of what makes for a "proper revelation"?

I'm not talking about proper, I'm talking about internal consistency.

 

[wynn]

Exactly what one would expect someone from a certain culture to say about themselves, and nothing that could only have come from an outside source.

I asked for citations.


For example, in Exodus, God is said to have called the Jews to be "stiff-necked."

Exodus 33:3 Go up to the land flowing with milk and honey. But I will not go with you, because you are a stiff-necked people and I might destroy you on the way.

What does the Koran say about Muslims?

Yes. The religious ideas of other cultures are unique.

I'm not talking about proper, I'm talking about internal consistency.

It can be argued that "Abrahamic religions" is merely a religiological/culturological abstract or construct, given that the individual religions subsumed under "Abrahamic religions" do not subscribe to it.

As such, it is remiss to compare them and treat them as one (and assessing that one for internal consistency).

 

[Yazata]

You are right to question that. I would suggest that the disharmony among these religious text that pretend to speak for the same god actually point to a non-existent god.

I don't believe in the Judeo-Christian-Islamic God, so I'm inclined to agree.

It means all of religion is man-made because why would God allow such different revelations of his own nature and wishes?

Each of these three religions has an idea of special revelations, of divine revelations made at a particular time and place to particular people. And inevitably it's the originators of their respective religious traditions, or major figures within them, that are supposed to have been the divinely favored ones.

So from the point of view of the atheists (you and me) the most likely explanation is that two different groups of people (Christians and Muslims) are imagining additional mythic content that they fit into an existing mythological context that seems in large part to have been created by the third and oldest group (the Hebrews). We would (kinda) agree with Quantum Quack, (though probably not for the reason that QQ intended), mainly because we think that all of this religious mythology is man-made anyway and none of it is God-made (since their god doesn't exist).

But from the point of view of each of these religions, God exists and God plays favorites. The ancestors of each religion's tradition were the favorites. The Jews think that they are God's Chosen that the Christians' and Muslims' claims are false and fantastic. And the Christians and Muslims both believe that the Jews have failed to recognize and acknowledge God's most important revelatory act, and that the revelations proclaimed by the opposing newer version (Muslim or Christian) are once again false and fantastic.