Chosen People Syndrome

S.A.M.

S.A.M.

uniquely dreadful
Valued Senior Member
In India we have a severe problem with untouchability that is hard to eradicate even with education:

Dalits are still segregated with little access to temples, water sources and upper caste areas. And ironically, even in Radhanagar in Hooghly district, the birthplace of social reformer Raja Ram Mohan Roy, there are separate crematoria for Brahmins and non-Brahmins. And in a bizarre case in Waganagere village in Gulbarga district of Karnataka, 120 Dalit households were forced to draw water from their well even after a dog fell in and died. During festivities, not only are they served food separately, but they have to bring their own plates and tumblers. Gulbarga, incidentally, has 126 cases registered under the SC/ST Prevention of Atrocities Act 1989 and the Protection of Civil Rights Act 1955, the highest in Karnataka.

In UP, almost every village has a chamar toli, a place segregated for them. Dalit children are made to sit separately in schools. In Malasa village in Kanpur Dehat, though the post of gram pradhan was reserved for scheduled castes, it has been lying vacant as no Dalit has the courage to contest the election, fearing backlash from the dominant Thakurs. And when they do, as two Dalits did last year, their candidature was rejected because no one, not even Dalits, seconded them during the filing of nomination papers. Uniquely in UP, untouchability is practised by Dalits too.

In Rajasthan’s Dholeria Shashan village near Pali, newcomers are interrogated and if they are scheduled castes, entry is tough. They also cannot pass upper caste houses wearing footwear or headgear, says poet and writer Vinod Vithall.
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http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-and-kicking-in-India/articleshow/4850136.cms

What do you suggest we do about these chosen peoples? What are the recommendations that will enable them to see the untouchables as human beings? Even Gandhi failed here with redefining them as "Harijans" [people of God]
 
That hasn't helped in the last 1000 years. Don't you think its about time we tackled the violations of the basic rights of people due to anachronistic notions of tribal superiority? Should the oppression of Dalits be ignored because they are a threat to the identity of the upper caste?
 
Lori_7 said:
well, you could always kill them.
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That has been tried. However, by virtue of historical power cycles [at first, they controlled the dissemination of education, through which they garnered political and social power] tribal identity is very strong in the upper caste and they maintain their ethnic purity by discouraging out-marriage and punishing any break with "tradition". Even reserving 45-55% of seats for the underprivileged has not helped, since the oppression is "managed" by recruiting Dalit leaders into corrupt circles
 
what are you going to do? reason with them? it's hopeless. i have no faith in politics sam and most of the time freedom from oppression comes by revolution.
 
Lets see, now we are trying to go global with the Dalit issue by trying to convince the government to make English education available to them. That should, in theory, reduce the elitism of the upper castes, while at the same time empowering the Dalits with exposure to a global culture that is not available to most of them.

At the end of the day, it is the oppressed who should define what their rights movement should represent

superstring01 said:
Ah-HA! Thought you could sneak one past me!

~String
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did it work? :eek:
 
It's a new take. So, I'm letting it slide. If it goes the path of most other Jew/Palestinian/Christian/Islam/Western/Middle-Eastern threads, then it'll be locked in short order.

But, shit, let's see where it goes!

~String
 
goverment legislation seems to work quite well for the most part sam. Anti discrimination legislation preventing people from actually acting on there bigotry means that eventually those bigotries change. For instance look at women's rights, it was an issue when women were given the vote but you would be hard pressed to find even minority surport to remove it from them
 
Well it obviously hasn't worked. If you note the Dalits themselves perpetuate the oppression by collaborating with the upper caste leaders.
 
S.A.M. said:
In India we have a severe problem with untouchability that is hard to eradicate even with education:

What do you suggest we do about these chosen peoples? What are the recommendations that will enable them to see the untouchables as human beings? Even Gandhi failed here with redefining them as "Harijans" [people of God]
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Best thing is to start talking about it. I bet this side of the issue (to see untouchables as human beings) is one of the less discussed topics in mainstream Indian media which is controlled by traditional forces. So the second arena appears as Internet. Let other people know the issue all around the world, keep it fresh, make other Indians talk about it. I believe new generation of humanity who is growing up with internet will have more options than previous generations in terms of questioning their taboos and traditional social sicknesses, just as others doing for their own societies all around the world.

I felt for these people as much as for any other oppressed people who suffers because of the ancient habits of their society. Yet, I have hope for them, it's a brand new generation and their world is emerging, I want to share this guy's optimism, although he represents the upper class:

http://www.ted.com/talks/shashi_tharoor.html
 
S.A.M. said:
http://vikas-gupta.in/2009/09/16/sh...oversy-congresss-sense-of-humour-is-pathetic/

Its not a hidden issue in India. Everyone talks about it, its open its discussed, we Indians are very good at talking.
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I checked the link, it shouldn't be a great surprise that the issue is still there: I am talking about serious questioning of traditional approach towards these people, the false meanings behind the classification. Demanding to make laws which accept these sort of discriminations as punishable crime against humanity, declaring them as politically incorrect discourses such as racism.

I didn't say it's a hidden issue or claimed that Indians are shy talkers. I meant the level of importance among other political issues.
 
Its a HUGE political issue. Its the vote bank of all politicians. And we have a plodding ridiculously anachronistic and essentially ineffectual [and probably massively corrupt] judicial system.

If it weren't for the people themselves, we'd have been sunk long ago.

Last Sunday, Star News organised a debate on caste in We The People, hosted by Barkha Dutt, otherwise a fairly "secular" person by persuasion and self-consciously a liberal. There were three panellists and about two dozen other participants. The award-winning journalist did not find it necessary to invite at least a Dalit. And yet this community forms over a fourth of India's population.
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http://www.ambedkar.org/News/people'untouchables.htm


See?
 
Asguard said:
goverment legislation seems to work quite well for the most part sam. Anti discrimination legislation preventing people from actually acting on there bigotry means that eventually those bigotries change. For instance look at women's rights, it was an issue when women were given the vote but you would be hard pressed to find even minority surport to remove it from them
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I think Asguard has the correct answer. Legislation enacting laws punshing anyone acting on their bigotry. One can be a bigot in thought but not in actions.
 
You guys are not comprehending.

Upper caste rich. Politician, police, judge corrupt. Lower caste powerless.

Its not even just about untouchability

New Delhi, Wed 28th Oct -- In another terrifying honour killing in
northern India, the father of a young bride hired thugs to kill his son-in-law
and rape his daughter as a punishment for marrying within the same caste.

The unspeakable crime happened on Deepavali day, on Oct 17, when the father,
a retired army man, hatched the plan to teach a lesson to his 21-year-old
daughter who married her childhood friend, but apparently from the same caste.

The Times of India today reported that the victim's husband was killed by
her own relative and friends and she was repeatedly raped by them from Oct 17 to
22, until she escaped and reported to the police.

Haryana police have arrested the girl's 50-year-old father and her nephew
for the alleged honour killing in Narela, outside Delhi.

According to Atul Katiyar, deputy commissioner of police (Outer Delhi), the
girl's family, embarrassed by the incident, had plotted the plan by inviting the
couple over on Deepavali night.

Not knowing what was awaiting them, the couple visited their village, where
the father asked the nephew to kill the 22-year-old husband.

The nephew and his friends brutally murdered the victim and dumped him in a
canal and later the gang raped the girl, reported the Times.

"The girl was allegedly raped by the nephew and his friends. The nephew
carried the body of the husband in his van and dumped it in a canal after tying
a stone around the neck," added Katiyar.

The girl is undergoing medical treatment and police have detained all those
involved in the crime.

In many Indian villages, same caste marriages are forbidden and families
carry out honour killing to protect their family reputation -- a social practice
that is strongly condemned by civil rights activists.
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http://www.malaysiandigest.com/world/50-singapore/653-caste-killing-of-son-in-law.html
 
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S.A.M. said:
You guys are not comprehending.

Upper caste rich. Politician, police, judge corrupt. Lower caste powerless.

Its not even just about untouchability...........
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Okay, the way people behave is tradition as much as anything. Laws change behavior where just talking about making a change in behavior has poor results.
 
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