Child Support

The women I've slept with are dignified enough , I'd think, that they wouldn't sue me but would rather have an abortion which I would pay for. That, of course, is up to them.

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but you or they dont know.. and most pregnancies are unplanned and accidents
 
your kind of missing my point everyones defense as yours is.. it takes 2 to tango..
the problem with that is I 100% agree it does take to

but only 1 person gets to make the decision the other.. or man in this case has absolutly 0 say in what happens

It's not that I'm missing your point. I'm simply pointing out that you as a consenting adult know the score before you jump into the sack. Now try and place yourself in a woman's position. It's her body, if she chooses to get pregnant, I'm sure finding a willing man won't be a problem. Even if she starts out with good intentions and plans never to bother you with child support. Life is uncertain, things happen and any good parent is going to do what's necessary to provide for their child. Even if it means forcing you at a late date. I'm not trying to tell you it's right or that you should be a stuckee. But I am saying if you put yourself in that position. It's the same as gamboling, you take your chances, with knowledge there's a good chance you will lose. In any event this subject has been debated for a long time and the laws are what they are for very good reasons.
 
The laws are written such that sperm donors can't be gone after for child support.

OTOH...for lesbians who have a friend whack off for them and do home insemination with it...there's not rock-solid legal protection. I'm not sure they can totally protect a non-official sperm donor even with some sort of

When I was feeling better about life and things, I looked up a place that (for $500!) would actually overnight-ship me a bunch of frozen swimmers from a German-American Phd. candidate who resembles my wife in physical features! woot!

They even allow home thaw and insertion.
But it was my hormones doing the daydreaming. The rest of me knows better.

My little brother's engaged to a woman who will likely want to have a few kids-her mom had five. So he gets to do the reproducing...and he's got the better gene set of the two of us anyway. He's far more robust in physical and mental health.
 
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Maybe the point is although men play a role in the impregnation, after the act they have little say. They can't enforce abortion, nor can they say the baby needs to be born. But they are responsible either way.

It would be like two partners start a business. Although both helped form the company and both will be responsible for any loans and debts, only one of the partners has the right to sell, stay in business or go backrupt. The other is stripped of his rights at the point of a gun (law enforcement).
 
I'm actually rather inclined to agree men can be said to have the short end of the stick...which for guys, is a very good reason to always bring your own new prophylactic and also use some sort of spermicidal jelly or foam for added protection.

Rubbers when used correctly are 96% effective-better that the pill at 92% effective contraception
It's the correct part that can and will bite you. Latex has to be kept at room temp...not in your wallet-the breakdown time for a rubber in the wallet's approximately 2 weeks.
Failure to put it on right can result in tearing or leaks.
So the spermicide's just an added protection...by itself I think it has something like 75% contraception success.

This is in trial though:

http://www.womenhealthcenter.net/male-contraceptives-injection-and-male-contraceptive-shot.html

If you could be 100% sure that you could not possibly knock a girl up, would that be worth it? It says you might have moodiness...since I had a spectacularly evil reaction to both versions of The Pill I tried when boinking a guy...not terribly sympathetic.

And I still think you'd better use a condom. Not only is HIV, herpes, and warts out there to get you...but now syphilis has evolved antibiotic-resistant strains.
 
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Parenthood is a known risk of heterosexual intercourse

Sifreak21 said:

condoms are 100% effective..

Is that a typo?

and my problem with the whole deal is yes i know it takes 2 people to make a child 1 man 1 woman. yet when it comes to having a child or aborting the child the man has absolutly NO SAY what soever in what happens.

Well, what share of the say do you think a man should get? Given the actual individual investment of time, body, and labor, a man pretty much uses up his say when he ejaculates.

yet if the woman chooses to the man has to pay. and in many cases pays about 90% of all the childs needs as childsupport is done on income.

It's really quite simple: If you're so frightened, don't take the risk.

Get a nancy. Get to know your hand. Get a vasectomy. Devise a precoital contract and hope for the best.

It's getting laid. If it's a one nighter, it's not about the myriad mysteries of the human spirit, it's about getting off.

And nothing about getting laid gives you ownership over what takes place inside another person's body.

If you don't like what happens to your sperm after you leave it inside a woman's body, then don't freakin' litter like that.

If you need mechanical illustrations, like buying a car, then let's try this one: I smoke. Does that mean I deserve to go blind?

Specifically, I smoke pot. I'm pretty much done, I think, smoking tobacco, but I will probably never quit smoking marijuana.

One risk of smoking marijuana, though, is that the most common methods among my circles involve using firemaking devices in a manner they were not intended to be used. A standard cigarette lighter is meant to be flicked on and released fairly quickly. It is not meant to be ignited, held in such a manner that its primary heat dispersal is against its own valve system, maintained as such for several seconds, given a few seconds rest, re-ignited, held in such a manner that its primary heat dispersal is against its own valve sytem, maintained as such for several seconds, &c., &c.

Flick my Bic. It's not meant to be used that way.

There is always a slender possibility that the lighter will explode. When you turn fire against a device filled with pressurized, flammable gas, it's an inherent risk.

So, yes, it is possible that a lighter might explode and burn my eyes beyond function, or drive small pieces of plastic through my eyeballs.

It's possible.

It sucks, to be sure. I would never say anyone deserves for that to happen. But yes, it's a risk of the behavior. And it's one I undertake regularly, and will undertake regularly for the rest of my life.

If you engage in sexual contact with a female, and your body is capable of delivering viable sperm, and her body produces and delivers viable ova, then pregnancy is a risk. It may not be the intention to knock a woman up, but neither is it my intention to drive small, sharp fragments of plastic through my freaking eyeballs.

Just like your example with the car. That is a risk of getting married. I have known men whose lives were ruined when their wives took off and went on a spending spree with the credit cards. I know a woman who is legally saddled with debt from her ex-husband's father's funeral and hospital bills. It's one of the risks of getting married.

Everything we do involves some manner of risk.

And it just slays me every time I encounter the various arguments about why it's unfair that a man should have to risk anything in order to get laid.

I've heard people argue that it's unfair that a man should have to risk being charged with rape. That it's unfair that a man should have to pay child support. That it's unfair that a man can't force a woman to have a baby he fertilized. And, you know, from the mundane to the extreme, my reply is pretty much the same: Having sex with a woman is not some intrinsic right of being a man. And, yes, we do have alternatives. If the risk is such a worry, then consider those alternatives.

I don't care about the math: Parenthood is not about parents.

And, yes, parenthood is a known risk of heterosexual intercourse.
 
I love reading the comments on this thread which have compleatly missed the point. The point is that the changes to IVF laws which now allow single women with no physical infertility but rather only the fact they haven't found anyone they want to have children with to use tax payer funded IVF which is expensive, "Unnatural" and invasive, but which makes certain companies ALOT of money is protected by law but natural, safe and free ways for a single women who wants to concive without a regular partner are directly inhibbided by law. Further more the attitudes shown on this thread are ammusing concidering I stated in the first post that the women was going out specifically to get pregnant without having a father in its life and yet the replies are about guys "dipping there wicks" and condoms.

Surly a better way for governments to allow single women (and even men) to have children would be to put legal policy in place to surport these sorts of aringments in place if the people chose to use them rather than making IVF companies millions of taxpayers $ when its unnecessary
 
Here's a nasty bit of trickery. It was a gift, and he didn't say he wanted it back.

And someone took a stab at this method, which is obviously not recommended.
 
Is that a typo?



Well, what share of the say do you think a man should get? Given the actual individual investment of time, body, and labor, a man pretty much uses up his say when he ejaculates.



It's really quite simple: If you're so frightened, don't take the risk.

Get a nancy. Get to know your hand. Get a vasectomy. Devise a precoital contract and hope for the best.

It's getting laid. If it's a one nighter, it's not about the myriad mysteries of the human spirit, it's about getting off.

And nothing about getting laid gives you ownership over what takes place inside another person's body.

If you don't like what happens to your sperm after you leave it inside a woman's body, then don't freakin' litter like that.

If you need mechanical illustrations, like buying a car, then let's try this one: I smoke. Does that mean I deserve to go blind?

Specifically, I smoke pot. I'm pretty much done, I think, smoking tobacco, but I will probably never quit smoking marijuana.

One risk of smoking marijuana, though, is that the most common methods among my circles involve using firemaking devices in a manner they were not intended to be used. A standard cigarette lighter is meant to be flicked on and released fairly quickly. It is not meant to be ignited, held in such a manner that its primary heat dispersal is against its own valve system, maintained as such for several seconds, given a few seconds rest, re-ignited, held in such a manner that its primary heat dispersal is against its own valve sytem, maintained as such for several seconds, &c., &c.

Flick my Bic. It's not meant to be used that way.

There is always a slender possibility that the lighter will explode. When you turn fire against a device filled with pressurized, flammable gas, it's an inherent risk.

So, yes, it is possible that a lighter might explode and burn my eyes beyond function, or drive small pieces of plastic through my eyeballs.

It's possible.

It sucks, to be sure. I would never say anyone deserves for that to happen. But yes, it's a risk of the behavior. And it's one I undertake regularly, and will undertake regularly for the rest of my life.

If you engage in sexual contact with a female, and your body is capable of delivering viable sperm, and her body produces and delivers viable ova, then pregnancy is a risk. It may not be the intention to knock a woman up, but neither is it my intention to drive small, sharp fragments of plastic through my freaking eyeballs.

Just like your example with the car. That is a risk of getting married. I have known men whose lives were ruined when their wives took off and went on a spending spree with the credit cards. I know a woman who is legally saddled with debt from her ex-husband's father's funeral and hospital bills. It's one of the risks of getting married.

Everything we do involves some manner of risk.

And it just slays me every time I encounter the various arguments about why it's unfair that a man should have to risk anything in order to get laid.

I've heard people argue that it's unfair that a man should have to risk being charged with rape. That it's unfair that a man should have to pay child support. That it's unfair that a man can't force a woman to have a baby he fertilized. And, you know, from the mundane to the extreme, my reply is pretty much the same: Having sex with a woman is not some intrinsic right of being a man. And, yes, we do have alternatives. If the risk is such a worry, then consider those alternatives.

I don't care about the math: Parenthood is not about parents.

And, yes, parenthood is a known risk of heterosexual intercourse.

yes i meant are not 100% effective.
your missing my point everyone points if its to much of a risk simply dont do it.
it takes 2 to tango...
you take the risk every time you do it.

all of this is common sence.. what im saying is i agree with all that.. but its a bunch of bullshit that the woman and only her gets to decide the fate of the next 18 years of your life. and not a god damn thing the guy can do about it
 
Maybe the point is although men play a role in the impregnation, after the act they have little say. They can't enforce abortion, nor can they say the baby needs to be born. But they are responsible either way.

It would be like two partners start a business. Although both helped form the company and both will be responsible for any loans and debts, only one of the partners has the right to sell, stay in business or go backrupt. The other is stripped of his rights at the point of a gun (law enforcement).

im not saying the man isnt partially responsible.. what im saying is he has absolutly no say in what happens.. which takes me back to my car analogy
 
im not saying the man isnt partially responsible.. what im saying is he has absolutly no say in what happens

Most women will listen to what the man she is sleeping with want to do in cases like this and will discuss the matter with him if they are any type of caring individual. They should be finding out what is best for them both not just her and try to come to a resolution they both can live with. As an example if she wants to have the baby and he does not then there's adoption that can be an alternative.
 
well this thread is a lost cause, sad would have been nice to debate a cheep and easy way to reduce goverment funded health care costs. Sad to see that just like when it comes to non medically required c-sections for some reason people seem to think, simple, cheep, safe and natural= bad
 
Most women will listen to what the man she is sleeping with want to do in cases like this and will discuss the matter with him if they are any type of caring individual. They should be finding out what is best for them both not just her and try to come to a resolution they both can live with. As an example if she wants to have the baby and he does not then there's adoption that can be an alternative.

adoption has a whole nother set of side effects and unless your were adopted you have no idea.

and i agree women usually will listen to there man but not when it comes to having a child
 
and i agree women usually will listen to there man but not when it comes to having a child

I'd disagree with you there. What if the man gets thrown into prison, what would she do?
 
nothing because the reason he would be in jail is because he didnt pay child support

Not really, he could have been involved with a crime before she gave birth to the baby and then what would she do then if there wasn't going to be her man to help her with that baby? :shrug:
 
A cute acute?

Sifreak21 said:

but its a bunch of bullshit that the woman and only her gets to decide the fate of the next 18 years of your life.

Yes, well, I think you've demonstrated the problem better than I ever could.

But what you need to figure out is that the fact that you get your rocks off with a woman does not mean you have any governance over her body or what takes place within it.

The logical result of the notion that human beings have any rights at all is not bullshit.

What you are asking for is nothing more than authority over another person's body. As a man, there is no equivalent authority over my own body I can lose.

And, as a man, if it really comes down to "the woman and only her gets to decide the fate of the next 18 years of [my] life", I would still assert that I made my decision when I "put the next eighteen years of my life in her hands".

and not a god damn thing the guy can do about it

You mean aside from growing up and behaving responsibly?

Describe it like a corporation, please: What voting share of the ownership of a woman's body do you think a man should receive over a woman simply because the man got his rocks off with her?

What say in the matter do you want? The right to force her to abort? Or, if you're anti-abortion, to force her to carry the child to term, and then put it up for adoption? The right to not only screw the mother, but shaft the child?°

What, really, are men supposed to ask for? The consequences of our decisions might be heavy, and we might complain that they suck°. But we do make our decisions.

Why do we deserve to get off any easier than anyone else°?
____________________

Notes:

° screw the mother, but shaft the childThe Unfortunately Requisite Disclaimer: The phrase is deliberate wordplay; anyone attempting to even wave a mere pretense of literalist context in its general direction will be obliged to answer the questions of flathead or Phillips, and crank or cam. Secondary Advisory Disclaimer: The preceding disclaimer should be viewed as general, and not necessarily directed at the member it seems most apparently addressed, who might, in fact, be of such literacy, intelligence, and consideration as to not require such a TURD.

° we might complain that they suck — Suck balls, as the saying goes. But perhaps there is a lesson there, too. If only we'd sucked balls instead of getting on a woman?

° get off any easier than anyone else — We already do. And yes, it is true that I find it very difficult to take this degree of selfish irrationality seriously. You get your say when you choose to give your seed.
 
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