I was curious if anyone here besides tony1 believes that catholics arent christian, and if you do please explain your point of view.
Catholics and Christians
- Thread starter hockeywings
- Start date
I must first admit I have only the average non-Catholic knowledge of their practices. But no denomination can be lumped as not true or true Christians. Many baptists are on the wrong track and many aren't. I don't think it would differ among Catholics. It is the heart and intentions of individuals. I for one would have a difficult time thinking Mother Teresa was not a true Christian. Not based on her denomination, but on the "fruit" she bore in her life.
*Originally posted by Taken
I must first admit I have only the average non-Catholic knowledge of their practices.*
i.e. you know nothing.
*But no denomination can be lumped as not true or true Christians.*
Catholicism isn't a denomination of Christianity.
If you don't believe me, ask them.
*I don't think it would differ among Catholics.*
It would, since most Baptists are saved, unless they're just faking it.
Catholics aren't saved, and are actually called accursed by the RCC if they have any certainty of their salvation at all.
Thus, if a Catholic knows they're saved, they're accursed, and if they aren't saved, then they aren't accursed, merely doomed.
*I for one would have a difficult time thinking Mother Teresa was not a true Christian. Not based on her denomination, but on the "fruit" she bore in her life. *
That fruit is scary fruit indeed.
Who knows how many thousands of desperate people she sent to a perpetual doom, not to mention the suffering while they were dying.
MT believed that suffering was the way of salvation, so she did nothing to alleviate the simplest pains, unless they were hers, of course.
I must first admit I have only the average non-Catholic knowledge of their practices.*
i.e. you know nothing.
*But no denomination can be lumped as not true or true Christians.*
Catholicism isn't a denomination of Christianity.
If you don't believe me, ask them.
*I don't think it would differ among Catholics.*
It would, since most Baptists are saved, unless they're just faking it.
Catholics aren't saved, and are actually called accursed by the RCC if they have any certainty of their salvation at all.
Thus, if a Catholic knows they're saved, they're accursed, and if they aren't saved, then they aren't accursed, merely doomed.
*I for one would have a difficult time thinking Mother Teresa was not a true Christian. Not based on her denomination, but on the "fruit" she bore in her life. *
That fruit is scary fruit indeed.
Who knows how many thousands of desperate people she sent to a perpetual doom, not to mention the suffering while they were dying.
MT believed that suffering was the way of salvation, so she did nothing to alleviate the simplest pains, unless they were hers, of course.
Tony1
(quote)Tony1:
Catholicism isn't a denomination of Christianity.
If you don't believe me, ask them.
============================================
Chris•ti•an•i•ty-Pronunciation: (kris"chE-an'i-tE), [key] —n., —pl. -ties.
1. the Christian religion, including the Catholic, Protestant, and Eastern Orthodox churches.
2. Christian beliefs or practices; Christian quality or character: Christianity mixed with pagan elements; the Christianity of Augustine's thought.
3. a particular Christian religious system: She followed fundamentalist Christianity.
4. the state of being a Christian.
5. Christendom.
6. conformity to the Christian religion or to its beliefs or practices.
(quote)Tony1:
Catholicism isn't a denomination of Christianity.
If you don't believe me, ask them.
============================================
Chris•ti•an•i•ty-Pronunciation: (kris"chE-an'i-tE), [key] —n., —pl. -ties.
1. the Christian religion, including the Catholic, Protestant, and Eastern Orthodox churches.
2. Christian beliefs or practices; Christian quality or character: Christianity mixed with pagan elements; the Christianity of Augustine's thought.
3. a particular Christian religious system: She followed fundamentalist Christianity.
4. the state of being a Christian.
5. Christendom.
6. conformity to the Christian religion or to its beliefs or practices.
Here's a quote from the Catholic Encyclopedia...
"Moreover, the Christianity of which we speak is that which we find realized in the Catholic Church alone"
See? No denomination.
There is no point in bringing the dictionary into this.
The Catholics don't recognize the dictionary definition, and neither do I.
Of course, you, I and the RCC all disagree on what a Christian is, but I'm sure you may have noticed that.
In any case, since Christianity is dependent on the anointing which comes from Christ, any definition which doesn't even mention the anointing is spurious.
"Moreover, the Christianity of which we speak is that which we find realized in the Catholic Church alone"
See? No denomination.
There is no point in bringing the dictionary into this.
The Catholics don't recognize the dictionary definition, and neither do I.
Of course, you, I and the RCC all disagree on what a Christian is, but I'm sure you may have noticed that.
In any case, since Christianity is dependent on the anointing which comes from Christ, any definition which doesn't even mention the anointing is spurious.
I'm a little confused.
I was brought up a Catholic Christian, and if a Catholics aren't Christians then what are they?
What I have noticed is that there are a lot, (not all, but a lot,) of Christians, Catholic and otherwise, who aren't very Christian at all, at least in the way they act, often prefering to observe the rigid letter of the rules they have been given rather than acting in the spirit of those rules.
I was brought up a Catholic Christian, and if a Catholics aren't Christians then what are they?
What I have noticed is that there are a lot, (not all, but a lot,) of Christians, Catholic and otherwise, who aren't very Christian at all, at least in the way they act, often prefering to observe the rigid letter of the rules they have been given rather than acting in the spirit of those rules.
tony,
esp
razz, i completely agree
All that says, is that we are right and you are wrong. Sounds very common among christians, including yourself, you tell people that you are right and they are wrong all the time, does that mean you arent christian?
esp
true, but not the topic, the topic is on whether catholics are christian or not.
razz, i completely agree
Taken:
"Most associate Christianity with "faith" in Jesus Christ."
When you tell a Mormon they aren't Christian they recite the formal name of their church and give you a "duh" kind of look.
What they don't get is that they are following a false Christ as are the Catholics. There are many similarities but it's only the differences that matter.
hockeywings :
Of course you agree with Razz. You know nothing of Catholicism which is why you think Webster is the authority on this matter.
Ben
"Most associate Christianity with "faith" in Jesus Christ."
When you tell a Mormon they aren't Christian they recite the formal name of their church and give you a "duh" kind of look.
What they don't get is that they are following a false Christ as are the Catholics. There are many similarities but it's only the differences that matter.
hockeywings :
Of course you agree with Razz. You know nothing of Catholicism which is why you think Webster is the authority on this matter.
Ben
*Originally posted by Taken
Most associate Christianity with "faith" in Jesus Christ.*
Which is why they are wrong.
*Annointing is of the Holy Spirit. *
Since Jesus is the "Anointed One," i.e. the Messiah, the Christ, and we are to follow him, we too are to be anointed, therefore Christians.
Anyone who thinks a person can be a Christian without being anointed is dreaming.
You see, even demons have "faith" in Jesus.
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
(James 2:19, KJV).
Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God.
(Mark 1:24, KJV).
And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God.
(Mark 3:11, KJV).
*Originally posted by esp
I'm a little confused.
I was brought up a Catholic Christian, and if a Catholics aren't Christians then what are they*
A little confused, just like you said, i.e. Catholics as opposed to Christians.
*Originally posted by razz
All that says, is that we are right and you are wrong.*
Actually, it answers your question about whether Catholicism is a denomination of Christianity.
According to that quote, it isn't.
Most associate Christianity with "faith" in Jesus Christ.*
Which is why they are wrong.
*Annointing is of the Holy Spirit. *
Since Jesus is the "Anointed One," i.e. the Messiah, the Christ, and we are to follow him, we too are to be anointed, therefore Christians.
Anyone who thinks a person can be a Christian without being anointed is dreaming.
You see, even demons have "faith" in Jesus.
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
(James 2:19, KJV).
Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God.
(Mark 1:24, KJV).
And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God.
(Mark 3:11, KJV).
*Originally posted by esp
I'm a little confused.
I was brought up a Catholic Christian, and if a Catholics aren't Christians then what are they*
A little confused, just like you said, i.e. Catholics as opposed to Christians.
*Originally posted by razz
All that says, is that we are right and you are wrong.*
Actually, it answers your question about whether Catholicism is a denomination of Christianity.
According to that quote, it isn't.
I still don't get it.
I can't see how you can be catholic without being christian.
It's like saying you can be a trout without being a fish.
What they don't get is that they are following a false Christ as are the Catholics.
How many are there? (Christs, I mean).
And out of interest, what end do you open your eggs?
I can't see how you can be catholic without being christian.
It's like saying you can be a trout without being a fish.
What they don't get is that they are following a false Christ as are the Catholics.
How many are there? (Christs, I mean).
And out of interest, what end do you open your eggs?
orthogonal
Registered Senior Member
This question reminds me of a funny (?) memory. In the German Catholic neighborhood where I grew up, there was one family on my street that we naively called, "The Lutherans".
You would have thought the "Thirty Years War" had just ended! It's just another example of the propensity that we humans have to make "us and them" distinctions.
Rational people might find an endless source of amusement from our religions if only they didn't bring so much grief to the world.
Michael
You would have thought the "Thirty Years War" had just ended! It's just another example of the propensity that we humans have to make "us and them" distinctions.
Rational people might find an endless source of amusement from our religions if only they didn't bring so much grief to the world.
Michael
*Originally posted by esp
I can't see how you can be catholic without being christian.
It's like saying you can be a trout without being a fish.*
No, it's like being in a barn without necessarily being a horse.
*How many are there? (Christs, I mean).*
Thousands.
Christianity has the real one, Hinduism and Buddhism refer to Christ "consciousnesses" and Catholicism has the rest, blind Jesuses, sick Jesuses, baby Jesuses, grown-up Jesuses, sad, woebegone Jesuses, Jesuses with flat gold hats, etc., etc.
*And out of interest, what end do you open your eggs? *
The middle.
*Originally posted by orthogonal
Rational people might find an endless source of amusement from our religions if only they didn't bring so much grief to the world.*
Who are these "rational" people you speak of?
Where can they be found?
They sound mythical.
I can't see how you can be catholic without being christian.
It's like saying you can be a trout without being a fish.*
No, it's like being in a barn without necessarily being a horse.
*How many are there? (Christs, I mean).*
Thousands.
Christianity has the real one, Hinduism and Buddhism refer to Christ "consciousnesses" and Catholicism has the rest, blind Jesuses, sick Jesuses, baby Jesuses, grown-up Jesuses, sad, woebegone Jesuses, Jesuses with flat gold hats, etc., etc.
*And out of interest, what end do you open your eggs? *
The middle.
*Originally posted by orthogonal
Rational people might find an endless source of amusement from our religions if only they didn't bring so much grief to the world.*
Who are these "rational" people you speak of?
Where can they be found?
They sound mythical.
Hang on I'm confused too, I thought the Catholics took their teachings from the New testatment and worshipped Jesus i.e. the one that was crucified and resurrected a few days later as referred to in the gospels. Surely that would make them followers of Christ, i.e. Christians. Surely the word "Christian" is a vague term for people who follow Christ??
"It's like saying you can be a trout without being a fish. "
(esp)
"It's like saying you can be a trout without being a fish. "
(esp)
*Originally posted by Dracula's Guest
Hang on I'm confused too, I thought the Catholics took their teachings from the New testatment*
They don't, unless it agrees with everything else they say.
*and worshipped Jesus i.e. the one that was crucified and resurrected a few days later as referred to in the gospels.*
They can't be worshipping that Jesus, since they have statues worshipping some guy still nailed to a cross.
*Surely that would make them followers of Christ, i.e. Christians. Surely the word "Christian" is a vague term for people who follow Christ?? *
Vagueness is key where Catholicism is concerned.
*Originally posted by Cris
Superb, and it fits your character here at sciforums.
There are little endians, and big endians, and now for the first time that I have heard we have a middle endian.*
I like to avoid false dichotomies.
Hang on I'm confused too, I thought the Catholics took their teachings from the New testatment*
They don't, unless it agrees with everything else they say.
*and worshipped Jesus i.e. the one that was crucified and resurrected a few days later as referred to in the gospels.*
They can't be worshipping that Jesus, since they have statues worshipping some guy still nailed to a cross.
*Surely that would make them followers of Christ, i.e. Christians. Surely the word "Christian" is a vague term for people who follow Christ?? *
Vagueness is key where Catholicism is concerned.
*Originally posted by Cris
Superb, and it fits your character here at sciforums.
There are little endians, and big endians, and now for the first time that I have heard we have a middle endian.*
I like to avoid false dichotomies.
Kalvinb, and tony1,
Now there are problems with opening your eggs in the middle. You see the proper way to eat eggs is to cook them in their shells and then sit them in specially designed egg-cups. One then chops off the end (little end or big end) and gracefully eats the soft egg with a small spoon. I don’t think the USA has yet to understand the sophistication of egg-cups (I haven’t seen any in the stores), or of eating eggs correctly.
The problem with a middle view is that the middle isn’t an end and the egg-cups would be the wrong shape. So it would be very difficult and really impossible to chop off a non-existent middle end.
But I am pleased you are consistent with one another in your impossible beliefs about middle ends since, after all, you do believe in impossibilities like gods and such.
Ahh we British still have so much to teach you.
Take care with your messy eggs – sigh! Whatever next – trying to open eggs in the middle, how ridiculous – crazy Americans!!!
And for the record I am a little endian, and that is clearly the only correct way to open one’s egg.
Cris
Now there are problems with opening your eggs in the middle. You see the proper way to eat eggs is to cook them in their shells and then sit them in specially designed egg-cups. One then chops off the end (little end or big end) and gracefully eats the soft egg with a small spoon. I don’t think the USA has yet to understand the sophistication of egg-cups (I haven’t seen any in the stores), or of eating eggs correctly.
The problem with a middle view is that the middle isn’t an end and the egg-cups would be the wrong shape. So it would be very difficult and really impossible to chop off a non-existent middle end.
But I am pleased you are consistent with one another in your impossible beliefs about middle ends since, after all, you do believe in impossibilities like gods and such.
Ahh we British still have so much to teach you.
Take care with your messy eggs – sigh! Whatever next – trying to open eggs in the middle, how ridiculous – crazy Americans!!!
And for the record I am a little endian, and that is clearly the only correct way to open one’s egg.
Cris
esp,
When I first came to stay in the USA back in the mid 80s I had three small children with me who all liked typical Britsih boiled eggs and soldiers for breakfast.
When we tried to buy and ask for egg-cups in the stores here we had enormous difficulty explaining what we wanted. At that time it seemed egg-cups did not exist in the USA, or at least not in California.
Cris
When I first came to stay in the USA back in the mid 80s I had three small children with me who all liked typical Britsih boiled eggs and soldiers for breakfast.
When we tried to buy and ask for egg-cups in the stores here we had enormous difficulty explaining what we wanted. At that time it seemed egg-cups did not exist in the USA, or at least not in California.
Cris