Hi clueluss, long time no see, ."A human however can change the chosen action given the same circumstances."
How do you know thats true.???
Why do you question it?
Hi clueluss, long time no see, ."A human however can change the chosen action given the same circumstances."
How do you know thats true.???
Hi clueluss, long time no see, .
Why do you question it?
No, I agree that you, as a human body, can move your arm etc. Where we probably disagree is about your claim that you chose to move your arm.... Presumably you will have a rebuttal that says my ability to move my arm doesn't count as "me" affecting the motion of a set of complex particles .
So can the computer, if on the second occasion it is "running" a different program.... A human however can change the chosen action given the same circumstances. ...
Probably not easy to test because the human subject would have to be able to encounter the exact same circumstances twice to prove that they might choose differently or illogically, which I maintain that a computer would have to be designed to do and we humans aren't designed; you may maintain otherwise.Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
quantum_wave---"A human however can change the chosen action given the same circumstances."
How do you know thats true.???
Yes its been awhile... i been busy tryin to learn people stuff
But to you'r queston... i cant emagine that such a thang has ever been tested... much less a conclusion arrived at.!!!
We agree. I don't think a computer chooses outside the code given to it, even if the code includes modification through "learning".No, I agree that you, as a human body, can move your arm etc. Where we probably disagree is about your claim that you chose to move your arm.
Every movement of the body (or thought) is caused by discharges in a network of nerves. The firing of each nerve in this network is controlled by the diffusion of neurotransmitters across synaptic gaps between nerves. This diffusion follows well know physical laws (as does every other process of nerve activity such as the depolarization wave that travels down the axon of the nerve that is in the process of "firing").
Thus your body is a complex biological machine, much like a hand held calculator with transistors switching in response to the pushing of its keys. I don't think it accurate to say that the calculator "choses" to active the display of 4 after the key sequence , 2 + 2 = has been pushed, do you?
Because we don't understand the physical laws related to thought, decision making, consciousness, etc. There are unknowns and so if you imply that our thoughts and choices are all understood because we understand at some micro level how nerves work then that is the point of our disagreement.If not, why do you call a much more complex, but also determined by the physical laws, sequence of nerves switching states in your body a choice?
Yes, that is the circumstance, if the computer is reprogrammed or has some "learning" programmed in. However, we design the computer and each and every action is programmed while humans are not designed and there is no known science that explains how we think or even how we are conscious.So can the computer, if on the second occasion it is "running" a different program.
And in my POV we humans cannot duplicate the body, we don't understand how we are conscious to the degree that we can build something that is conscious, and we are not even wired the same way we are born, the wiring takes on a conscious direction throughout our lives that is determined to a great extent by our own choices.In my POV, the "you" is a program* running in parietal brain tissue, which I call the RTS program that is creating "you." At birth, this program is as your body's DNA structured it, but it is mainly a "learning" program. Thus, as you age, learn how to make both eyes point in the same direction, and much later how to do integral calculus, etc. I.e. This program that is "you" becomes much more complex and is constantly changing. Because it is a constantly changing program, today it may chose "a" and tomorrow "b" even though the circumstance of the choice are identical.
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* I.e. you are not a body, but only information in a non-material program. Thus, "you" are not constrained to follow the physical laws. This is how "you" can differ from the calculator in principle, and not just in degree of complexity.
No I don't imply that. Certainly we don't understand all of brain functions nor can we at present make a machine that has "desires" and "beliefs" about how they may be achieved. I.e. currently no machine can make what I call a choice: A choice is a selection which the choosing agent believes will help satisfy its desires.... There are unknowns and so if you imply that our thoughts and choices are all understood because we understand at some micro level how nerves work then that is the point of our disagreement...
I did bow out because I played all my cards and this is an endless debate....
However, unless you believe in immaterial "spirits" that can control the body, especially its nerves, then the body is a deterministic system, governed by physical laws. Thus we need not fully understand how the brain works to know it is "rule following" - obeying the physical laws.
That is a very weak "card" - I.e. it is simply a commonly accepted statement that all deterministic system follow rules even if we don't know what they are - no one will disagree with this relatively useless rule...Here is my main card: The rule: Anything that appears to be non-algorithmic actually has natural causes that we don’t yet understand....
I agree that it probably hasn't been adequately tested. So it seems that each of us will make a conclusion on the issue if we want to take a position.
The other day i saw a video that showed a robot that could observe and learn like a child learns from their parents. The robot was able to discern when its "parent" was displeased or pleased with its actions.
Well isn't that the same thing as saying no human can have a set of ethics because there is no universal agreement on what ethics are?Honeyb35 said:I don't think we can program ethics into a robot, because we don't have a standard basis for what is ethical, on a worldwide basis that is. What is ok in some cultures in the world is not ok in other