Can one understand Islam without knowing what 'Allah' is?

[everneo]

[5.3]This day have I perfected for you your religion and completed My favor on you and chosen for you Islam as a religion; but whoever is compelled by hunger, not inclining willfully to sin, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Seems, removing hunger and ignorance is better than any religion as for as Allah is concerned.

 

[surenderer]

Seems, removing hunger and ignorance is better than any religion as for as Allah is concerned.

Lol.....your missing the point of the quote.....it was that Islam was the religion chosen for Muslims not Sufiism or whatever.Sorry for being unclear :m:

 

[surenderer]

72 all inclusive. Every sect claims that they are the true followers of the Prophet.


Sufis also do the same if not better in that than the orthodoxy.


Sufis still call themselves as muslims as much as sunnis, shias, wahabis, salafis call themselves muslims. Why Sufi Vs other muslims argument coming up ? Is there any sufi christian, sufi hindu or sufi buddhist ? What is the problem with accepting sufis as an order of muslims (not a sect or cult) ?

72 all inclusive. Every sect claims that they are the true followers of the Prophet

True so then one has to look at what each teaches and Saints etc.... were not in the Prophet's(pbuh) message... (or any other Rasul)

Sufis still call themselves as muslims as much as sunnis, shias, wahabis, salafis call themselves muslims.

No Sufi's call themselves Sufi's who practice Islam. If they were muslims then they wouldnt have to create the name Sufi's nor practice Islam any different than any other Muslim(wahabis are also in the category of muslims who have changed God's word to fit their own desires/goals)

What is the problem with accepting sufis as an order of muslims (not a sect or cult) ?[/

The problem is that as a Muslim we are supposed to be of one "sect". Thats why we all pray 5 times daily at the exact same time facing the exact same direction. During the Hajii all muslims dress the same (you couldnt tell a begger from a prince). All muslims also greet each other the same way. Thats unity The Koran states that:


He has chosen you (to conform to His religion) and has imposed no difficulty upon you in religion, the religion of your father Ibrahim. He named you 'Muslims' both before (in the preceding Divine Scriptures) and in this Book." (22.78)


So again if you believe in the Koran as Sufi's say they do why not follow it? Since the Qur'an and Hadith are readily available, and cannot be changed, the Sufis have resorted to another trick used by other Mystics: Ta'weel, or changing the apparent meaning of a verse or hadith to a secret inner one which only a certified Sheikh could explain :m:

 

[everneo]

[5.3]This day have I perfected for you your religion and completed My favor on you and chosen for you Islam as a religion; but whoever is compelled by hunger, not inclining willfully to sin, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. ”

Seems, removing hunger and ignorance is better than any religion as for as Allah is concerned.

Lol.....your missing the point of the quote.....it was that Islam was the religion chosen for Muslims not Sufiism or whatever.Sorry for being unclear :m:

No, you missed the irony in the ayat 5.3. Watch out for the 'inner meaning' that could be easily missed out as you did now !!. It is Allah who is going to decide on matters beyond the religion however perfect it is. Perfection of a religion is not much helpful on the face of inherent human needs and flaws.

 

[everneo]

True so then one has to look at what each teaches and Saints etc.... were not in the Prophet's(pbuh) message... (or any other Rasul)

I know that in the Prophets message there is no future prophet. Is there anything about saints ? Other theistic religions like christianity and hinduism have their saints appearing then and there to guide people. Why islam deprives muslims of their guidance.?

So again if you believe in the Koran as Sufi's say they do why not follow it? Since the Qur'an and Hadith are readily available, and cannot be changed, the Sufis have resorted to another trick used by other Mystics: Ta'weel, or changing the apparent meaning of a verse or hadith to a secret inner one which only a certified Sheikh could explain :m:

As i said earlier, sufi saints never called themselves sufis other than & above muslims. In fact most of them were from sunnis. They believed in tawheed and followed quran and hadith, sharia like other muslims. The only difference is they loved the God and the fellow humans in a different way. If you read about the Sufi saints like Hz.Kwaja Moinudeen Chisti (india), Hz.Nizamudeen (india), Hz.Lal Shabaz Qalandar(pakistan), Hz.Baba sakar ganj(pakistan), Hz.Abdul Qadir Gilani (baghdad) to name a few, you find them the epitome of virtues and preaching & practicing love. Though orthodoxy try their best, millions of muslims visit these sufi shrines. No certified sheikh could issue fatwa against this tradition. The miracles of Allah fulfilling these sufi saints' humble and noble requests are legends even to this day.