Can morals exist without religion?

V

Varda

The Bug Lady
Valued Senior Member
I'm sorry if this subject has already been exausted in other occasions. If so, could someone give me a link to the thread?

I was discussing this with a friend of mine in another board, and he seems to believe that there is no motivation to be moral when there is no god.

I gave him a quick basic argument of utilitarism among other points from the humanistic point of view, and my personal opinion that what motivates a person to be moral is the capacity to feel guilt. But he seemed not to be convinced.

What is everyone's opinion on this?
 
There are very moral, ethical, and decent people by the millions who don't believe in God. All the atheist Buddhists, for example.

And some very moral people who claim to have no religion, such as the Navajo.

Is someone actually contending that only theists have morals and ethics? That would be very silly.

If people had no built in sense of morality, they would not be able to recognize the precepts of their religion as moral ones.
 
Varda said:
I'm sorry if this subject has already been exausted in other occasions. If so, could someone give me a link to the thread?

I was discussing this with a friend of mine in another board, and he seems to believe that there is no motivation to be moral when there is no god.

I gave him a quick basic argument of utilitarism among other points from the humanistic point of view, and my personal opinion that what motivates a person to be moral is the capacity to feel guilt. But he seemed not to be convinced.

What is everyone's opinion on this?
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Silly question really, since morals already exist without religion. And better morals too.
 
iceaura said:
There are very moral, ethical, and decent people by the millions who don't believe in God. All the atheist Buddhists, for example.

And some very moral people who claim to have no religion, such as the Navajo.

Is someone actually contending that only theists have morals and ethics? That would be very silly.

If people had no built in sense of morality, they would not be able to recognize the precepts of their religion as moral ones.
Click to expand...

But Buddhism is a religion, and Buddhism is not atheistic, the Buddhist scriptures (pali canons) mention many gods (devas), and the creator (Brahma), and other beings like that....
 
Morals are merely a subjective code of behaviour that one applies to oneself that is developed through their experience to date.
Ethics are the code of conduct/behaviour established by the society in which the individual finds themselves.

If a person never has exposure to religion - they will still have their own morals based upon their own upbringing - and will probably match the ethics of their society.

The ethics of a society are built up from the need to live together - not much more - and it is more or less driven by the majority view. If the majority are religious then the ethics of the society will be led by it to a degree.

All my opinion, though.

So yes, I think morals exist without religion. They would be formed by any individual in any circumstance - but might as a result be very different from the morals we are used to.
 
Sarkus said it very well. Anyone can have morals depending on what they're taught and what they believe to be true.

"Morals" is subjective and means different things to different people.

I think the difference between me and an atheist is that I *want* to be pleasing to God. I *want* to hear "well done" when I get to Heaven. I *want* to do the "great commission" (get people saved).:)

Making decisions that are pleasing to God got a lot easier after I was saved and committed to Him.:)

I'm trying to take wrong thoughts captive but sometimes it's really hard.

The Bible says in I Corinthians 2:16:
I have the mind of Christ; therefore I can know the thoughts of my Lord that He may instruct me. That's a big responsibility. I'm working on mine.;)
 
The Devil Inside said:
subjective and caustic.

seriously...
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Secular standards, Sharia Law or Medieval Christian rule? No contest. Any popular vote on morals by theists normally goes down that road. Christians in America are on the verge of the same thing with only a thin barrier of secularism holding them back.
 
sandy said:
The Bible says in I Corinthians 2:16:
I have the mind of Christ; therefore I can know the thoughts of my Lord that He may instruct me. That's a big responsibility. I'm working on mine.;)
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I would not be to proud of that, you now might start cursing fig trees and stating children should be killed, and families to hate each other, all because you dont bring peace, but death.
matt 10:34, matt 10:21, matt 19:29, matt 15:4-7, mark 7:9, mark 11:13, luke 12:47

you obey your god, right, so if you god told you to kill Mr X for working on the sabbath, would you disobey your god or kill the guy.
 
I don't bring death to anyone--death to their old thoughts and beliefs maybe, but not physical death.
 
KennyJC said:
Secular standards, Sharia Law or Medieval Christian rule? No contest. Any popular vote on morals by theists normally goes down that road. Christians in America are on the verge of the same thing with only a thin barrier of secularism holding them back.
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the irony of your original statement is too much to bear.
"my non-god is bigger than your god."
:p
 
sandy said:
I don't bring death to anyone--death to their old thoughts and beliefs maybe, but not physical death.
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but if you think like jesus you will.

could you answer the question I posed.
"you obey your god, right, so if you god told you to kill Mr X for working on the sabbath, would you disobey your god or kill the guy."
 
Yes, They can exist, While there are some common morals, each one of us has different ideas on its scope, "our range" so to speak. those whose ranges exist to the point where the moral can be twisted into doing anything are those without morals.
 
I didn't realize that was a question since I didn't see a question mark :confused:

MY God is not going to tell me to kill anyone for working on the Sabbath so that is a ludicrous question.:rolleyes:
 
sandy said:
I didn't realize that was a question since I didn't see a question mark :confused:

MY God is not going to tell me to kill anyone for working on the Sabbath so that is a ludicrous question.:rolleyes:
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we are talking about the god of the bible (old and new), the one that told abraham to kill isaac Gen 22:2-13, the same one who told moses, aaron, and the sons of levi to kill there nieghbours Exo 32:27-28, the same god that gave you the ten commandments.
if he told you to kill somebody for some other reason, any other reason, would you do it, or would you disobey your god?
it's a simple yes or no answer.
 
geeser said:
we are talking about the god of the bible (old and new), the one that told abraham to kill isaac Gen 22:2-13, the same one who told moses, aaron, and the sons of levi to kill there nieghbours Exo 32:27-28, the same god that gave you the ten commandments.
if he told you to kill somebody for some other reason, any other reason, would you do it, or would you disobey your god?
it's a simple yes or no answer.
Click to expand...

The excellent teachings of peace and love by Jesus contradict badly with the often evil,hatefull nature of Yahweh which should tell you that the bible is indeed corrupt with man created dogmatic b/s.
 
sandy said:
He's not going to tell me to kill someone so the question is dumb and I'm not playing.
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So your answer is actually yes.

And if you read your bible, your god clearly has told people to murder which makes you a liar of liars. Very interesting mind you have- denial, pretense and lies work for you.
 
sandy said:
He's not going to tell me to kill someone so the question is dumb and I'm not playing.
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so I take your lack of an answer to mean yes.
nova900 said:
The excellent teachings of peace and love by Jesus contradict badly with the often evil,hatefull nature of Yahweh which should tell you that the bible is indeed corrupt with man created dogmatic b/s.
Click to expand...
is this the same hateful Yahweh, that gave you the ten commandments.

are these some of those excellent teachings of peace and love from jesus
KJV NT Luke 16:16, The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
17, And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

KJV NT Matt 5,17 : "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."
so it looks like jesus likes what Yehweh has done, in plain english, he's saying that the laws of the OT, should be followed to the letter in the NT.

KJV NT Matt 10,34: "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword."

the point I was to be making is no fantasy/nobody can make me kill, but the religious do it everyday, thus the morals of a nonbeliever are vastly superior to any theist.
 
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