Calling all Pschics

[Arvandor]

Hey guys Im new around here. great site. At first I was quite sceptical about these things, acctually VERY sceptical, but then a few years ago, loads of weird things started to happen. Sensing other peoples feelings, thier charcter, just by having a glance in their face, the usual I new that is gonna happen thingie, but it happend waaaaaaaay to many times to be called just a coincidence or stuff like that.

lol, I guess im a empath

 

[heliocentric]

If people could really read minds:
--We wouldn't need trials or juries, just psychic judges.
--Exams would be pointless with the teacher in the room
--It would put an end to lying and lie detectors.
--Guys would have to be very careful about their thoughts when out on a date.
--Some teenage kids would be in really really big trouble with parents

If people could really remote view:
--automatic teller numbers and credit card numbers would be up for grabs
--doctors could dispense with x-rays, and cat scans
--hide and seek would go out of fashion as a playground activity
--Strip joints and topless bars would go out of business
--Pregnant women would not need sonograms to see if they were having a girl or a boy.
--Cheating spouses would be in big trouble.
--No one would have to watch sports on TV because you could just go there in your mind.

If people could really see the future:
--Las Vegas would become a ghost town.
--lottery jackpots would always be shared by tens of thousands of people.
--airlines would have an "Early Psychic Warning System" and merely cancel flights that are going to crash.
--divorce would be unknown with psychic marriage counselors.
--psychics would dominate wall street

If psychics could really bend metal with their minds:
--Enemy psychics could bend the wings on Air Force planes.
--Enemy psychics could bend army tank barrels.
--When tested by skeptics, psychics would not actually have to touch the metal with their hands!

You're assuming that this would be a world where everyone was psychic and everyone's ability was pretty much 100%. Its pointless to draw these conclusions since not every person in the world claims to be psychic and the small percentage that do hardly ever claim to be right all the time

 

[heliocentric]

0neiros- I am not quite sure what you meant by that... But if you meant that everyone has powers... read the rest of this post and oh, please, show me the way to the light of telepathy and whatnot.


Anyone who can actually exhibit psychic powers I suppose would like to win $1 million, and probably give it to poor or charity or something like that. If you have evidence for your so-called powers, use them to help people, damnit. Show James Randi your powers... you will be rich.

http://www.randi.org/research/index.html

"At JREF(James Randi Educational Foundation), we offer a one-million-dollar prize to anyone who can show, under proper observing conditions, evidence of any paranormal, supernatural, or occult power or event. The prize is in the form of negotiable bonds held in a special investment account."

Yeah, someone do that, and then I'll find out about it, and it will have been shown that supernatural mental powers are real.

They have failed all tests ever given. These "powers" are merely hopes or wishes or dreams of people. Just because you think something is true, without evidence, does not necessarily make it so.

--And what "aura" did you see of someone? Can you do it again? can you show everyone else? NO. It does not exist, it is your mind playing tricks on you.

I am quite tired of this; society has caused people to be so familiar with supernatural activities, that when anything immediately unexplainable occurs, they immediately jump the conclusion that it is something supernatural.

Now, on the other hand, if someone were to show irrefutable evidence that ESP or whatever is real, I would no longer be skeptical of it. But, since some researchers have tried to test psychic powers with no positive result, they, according to probability, must not exist.

Predicting/sensing things? What? Saying, "I knew that would happen" after an event is pure bullshit. If you are referring to the "allegories" about "I was thinking about calling my friend, Kim, but when I picked up the phone, she had just called at that moment... wow, we are psychic" bullshit. How many times have you picked up the phone and no one was on it? It is called PROBABILITY.

Did you predict the wars(Gulf, Iraq, and bombings... Kuwait), or tragedies, OK city bombing, the Turkey earthquakes, WTC attacks, pentagon?
If that was possible by anyone, psychically, they would have done something about it. There was no reason not to. The fact is, psychic powers do not exist, as my previous post clearly shows; none of these things happen.

Coincidences are not displays of psychic ability.

you really think a test with a million dollars at stake is going to be unbiased
and reliable?
You know Rhandi can turn any applicant down with no explaination? whats to stop him from refusing someone that he thought might have a shot at winning the million and destroying his reputation as a debunker?
Also remember rhandi is a self-promoting magician nothing more, and that experiments that offer money for something to be proved or disproved by their very nature are not credible.

 

[heliocentric]

Also ESP research remember is generally very tricky, when does a coincidence become a premonition? When is something TOO MUCH of a coincidence to be only coincidence?
there's no clear cut line, all you can really say; if you're going to approach it from a scientifc standpoint is...its highly improbable that this is mearly chance. But there's no limit on how much chance can take place in the universe so to my mind ESP can never be fully proven to satisfy the scientific mind. There will probably only ever be 'compelling evidence' to support ESP, since its a phenomena that that is going to litterally take a mountain of evidence to convince the average person.

I suppose ultimately what it comes down to is wether you view the universe as being random or having meaning, i think this alone underpins one's likelyhood to catagorise something as being coincidence or something more.

 

[shaman_]

you really think a test with a million dollars at stake is going to be unbiased
and reliable?
You know Rhandi can turn any applicant down with no explaination? whats to stop him from refusing someone that he thought might have a shot at winning the million and destroying his reputation as a debunker?
Also remember rhandi is a self-promoting magician nothing more, and that experiments that offer money for something to be proved or disproved by their very nature are not credible.

An agreement is made by both parties regarding what means success and what means failure before the test starts. The test are set up so there is no judging needed and the results are clear. How is the test biased? Outright cheating?

Randi has never turned down anyone 'with no explanation'. If a psychic/medium ect was turned down they would be all over the media as the real psychic Randi is too scared too test. This has not happened.

 

[shaman_]

Also ESP research remember is generally very tricky, when does a coincidence become a premonition? When is something TOO MUCH of a coincidence to be only coincidence?
there's no clear cut line, all you can really say; if you're going to approach it from a scientifc standpoint is...its highly improbable that this is mearly chance. But there's no limit on how much chance can take place in the universe so to my mind ESP can never be fully proven to satisfy the scientific mind. There will probably only ever be 'compelling evidence' to support ESP, since its a phenomena that that is going to litterally take a mountain of evidence to convince the average person.

No but tests are devised that will show if someone knows much more than they would than if they were relying on chance, such as Zener cards.

 

[heliocentric]

An agreement is made by both parties regarding what means success and what means failure before the test starts. The test are set up so there is no judging needed and the results are clear. How is the test biased? Outright cheating?

The test is biased because they are conducted and set up by someone who stands to loose 1. a million dollars, 2. his deputation as a debunker of all things paranormal if the tests dont produce negative results.
3. He is not an unbiased researcher, he is quite vocal that ESP is nonsense!
do you really want such a person spearheading experiments into ESP? wouldnt it be wiser for someone to control the experiments who was open minded either way and simple willing to let the data speak for its self?

The real question should be how are the tests not biased?
There are lots of tests floating around of this nature, a guy recently offered close to a million to anyone who could disprove that the government didnt orchestrate 9/11. He set up a pannel of his anti-bush administration friends, and offered the money out to anyone who could convince them that the government didnt have a hand in the 9/11 attacks.
Now what are the chances of anyone getting that money? none. And its the same with any test that waves money in the face of its 'contestants'.
Such tests are cynically set up as a testiment to anything the person does or doesnt want to true, no one will ever pass tests such as these and that exactly is the point.

Randi has never turned down anyone 'with no explanation'. If a psychic/medium ect was turned down they would be all over the media as the real psychic Randi is too scared too test. This has not happened.

Well its in there.... in his contract of sorts, he does have that power. But the fact that he hasnt im sorry isnt enough for me to take Randi seriously.

 

[heliocentric]

No but tests are devised that will show if someone knows much more than they would than if they were relying on chance, such as Zener cards.

And im pretty sure results have been produced significantly over the odds of what 'should' be produced by chance. But its just not enough to convince the majority of people out there.

 

[shaman_]

The test is biased because they are conducted and set up by someone who stands to loose 1. a million dollars, 2. his deputation as a debunker of all things paranormal if the tests dont produce negative results.
3. He is not an unbiased researcher, he is quite vocal that ESP is nonsense!
do you really want such a person spearheading experiments into ESP? wouldnt it be wiser for someone to control the experiments who was open minded either way and simple willing to let the data speak for its self?

The real question should be how are the tests not biased?
There are lots of tests floating around of this nature, a guy recently offered close to a million to anyone who could disprove that the government didnt orchestrate 9/11. He set up a pannel of his anti-bush administration friends, and offered the money out to anyone who could convince them that the government didnt have a hand in the 9/11 attacks.
Now what are the chances of anyone getting that money? none. And its the same with any test that waves money in the face of its 'contestants'.
Such tests are cynically set up as a testiment to anything the person does or doesnt want to true, no one will ever pass tests such as these and that exactly is the point.

Well its in there.... in his contract of sorts, he does have that power. But the fact that he hasnt im sorry isnt enough for me to take Randi seriously.

Please clarify for me. Are you saying the tests are fraudulent? Randi's opinion of esp should be irrelevant.
I can't really comment on that 9/11 challenge as that is the first i have heard of it.

 

[shaman_]

And im pretty sure results have been produced significantly over the odds of what 'should' be produced by chance. But its just not enough to convince the majority of people out there.

No one has been able to regularly show an ability to get results above those expected by chance. (to my knowledge)

 

[heliocentric]

Not too be rude but, i really cant make it any clearer, fraud doesnt even have to come into it, no one ever passes these kinds of tests. By their nature they have no credibility.

 

[mistermistoffolees]

Sometimes I have dreams that are just short burts of say .."video".. and at the time they seem to be just useless vision. Then anywhere between a day and a several years later I'll be in that video in the real world. For instance, it happened to me once when I was walking around my history room. I had dreamt the exact sequence of events a few weeks beforehand. Once when on a school field trip it happened when I was walking through a swampy type area.

I know it sounds like Deja vu(sp?) but it cannot be dismissed as this because it's not a feeling of being there before, it's the knowledge that I dreamt it before.

 

[Ellimist]

mistermisoffolees: it is merely a form of deja vu - after the event happens, for whatever reason, you believe you had this "dream" long ago, so it seems your mind knew of it before it happened - but the memory was just formed. It has happened to me. It can also be considered a form of post hoc reasoning.

and what is heliocentric doing responding to my posts from two years ago? he/she knows ESP claims have been tested and failed every time, not just "100%" or whatever. no matter how much you attack a method of testing, if a claim is not supported by evidence repetitively over decades, it is meaningless conjecture. And continuing to claim its veracity is merely belief, not knowledge - just faith.

heh heh.

 

[mistermistoffolees]

mistermisoffolees: it is merely a form of deja vu - after the event happens, for whatever reason, you believe you had this "dream" long ago, so it seems your mind knew of it before it happened - but the memory was just formed.

Negative. It occurs as the event is happening, not afterwards. And the reason I know I have dreamt it is because I write all my dreams down in a journal when I've had them.

 

[Ellimist]

oh, good.

so you can predict events then?

 

[Ellimist]

danielb - missing the point.

if he/she knows what is going to happen - he/she can prevent it or tell someone about it.

hell, it is written down - not difficult to test in the least.

take the events written down, and check them off after they happen - it may take years, but it can be done. don't allow any "biases" in there. heh heh.

 

[mountainhare]

The test is biased because they are conducted and set up by someone who stands to loose 1. a million dollars,
2. his deputation as a debunker of all things paranormal if the tests dont produce negative results.
3. He is not an unbiased researcher, he is quite vocal that ESP is nonsense!

This proves that Randi is biased. It does NOT prove this his tests are biased.

Please, explain why his TESTS are biased. Find an example of one which you believe in 'unfair'.

 

[mistermistoffolees]

Ah guys, the whole thing with premonitions is that you don't know they're premonitions until the event happens... Well, in my case anyways. So how does one prevent it when they are unaware of when it is going to occur?

Besides, I generally don't ever dream of anything useful. Just stuff like conversations with people, insignificant things that people do etc.

 

[ellion]

power requires responsibility.

14. Having obtained the use of the inner senses, having conquered the desires of the outer senses, having conquered the desires of the individual soul, and having obtained knowledge, prepare now, O disciple, to enter upon the way in reality. The path is found: make yourself ready to tread it.


18. The knowledge which is now yours is only yours because your soul has become one with all pure souls and with the inmost. It is a trust vested in you by the Most High. Betray it, misuse your knowledge, or neglect it, and it is possible even now for you to fall from the high estate you have attained.

 

[starlove202000]

You can bind metal try a spoon with your minds eye. I am the type who can tell things that are going to happen before they do. Not through a dream but through the waking hours. I can make things happen just with my mind. I dont know how, or even how to control it. But it is there. Psyhics cant make money because your spirit guide is to help others not yourself.