California: Prohibition on gay marriage

um james, segegated toilets have nothing to do with sexual assult.

Out of interest have you ever acidently walked into a womens toilet thinking it was a mans? you ever seen the reverse happen? (or had a women walk in while you were pissing at a urinal?)

I would suggest that its PRIVACY rather than "risk of assult" which is the reason we have segragated toilets.
 
distantcube said:
It has also been observed that men are more likely to be gang raped, especially where a pack mentality is likely to exist, such as in institutions.
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Any statistics?

There is some controversy as to whether many of these rapists are actually homosexual, or whether they are heterosexuals asserting their dominance.
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Actually there is little controversy. These men are heterosexual outside of prison.
If the rape of homosexual males by heterosexual males is 'not uncommon', then by your logic homosexual and heterosexual men should have separate bathrooms.
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But it is not as common as rapes of women. And there is a simple reason. Physical strength and a culture of male domination are not advantages in man on man rape in the same ways they are in men on women rape.
 
Simon Anders said:
Any statistics?
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I find it interesting how you didn't ask James R to provide statistics for his claim that "heterosexual males raping females is not uncommon."

Edit: Three references:

http://www.menweb.org/battered/malerape.htm
The most common site for male rape involving post-puberty victims is in prison.
False:
Research indicates that the most common sites for male rape involving post-puberty victims are outdoors in remote areas and in automobiles (the latter usually involving hitchhikers). Boys in their early and mid-teens are more likely to be victimized than older males (studies indicate a median victim age of 17). The form of assault usually involves penetration of the victim anally and/or orally, rather than stimulation of the victim's penis. Gang rape is more common in cases involving male victims than those involving female victims
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http://harfordmedlegal.typepad.com/forensics_talk/gang-rape-profiling.html

Of course, prison rape is not the only type of gang rapes against males. Gang rapes against males have also been reported as having been committed by street gangs against rival gang members or non-members (rare), or as hate crimes against gays. According to researchers, "gang rape is more common with male victims than female victims.


Multiple sexual acts are more likely to be demanded, weapons are more likely to be displayed and used, and physical injury is more likely to occur, with the injuries that do occur being more serious than with injured female rape victims (Porter, 1986)".
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http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2372/is_4_36/ai_58459538/pg_7?tag=artBody;col1

Typically, male rape victims are sodomized and/or forced to perform fellatio on their attacker(s) and are often physically assaulted as well. In addition, male rape victims are more likely than female rape victims to be gang raped. Although the stereotype may be that men would not be as powerfully affected by such an event as women because they are supposedly tougher emotionally and better able to cope, there is a similarity in the reaction between male rape victims and the rape trauma syndrome observed in female rape victims (Calderwood, 1987; Mezey & King, 1989).
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Actually there is little controversy.
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Source?

These men are heterosexual outside of prison.
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In my eyes, having sex with a man is homosexual act. People who willingly commit homosexual acts are homosexuals or bisexuals.

But it is not as common as rapes of women.
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I trust you have some solid statistics to back this up?

And there is a simple reason. Physical strength and a culture of male domination are not advantages in man on man rape in the same ways they are in men on women rape.
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Yet violence against women perpetrated by men is discouraged by progressive societies, while sexual assaults perpetrated against men are regarded with apathy, or even amusement.
 
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distantcube:

When did this thread go from being about gay marriage to being about homosexual rape?

Quite simply, I don't agree with your assessment that separate bathrooms are needed for males and females.
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I don't believe I made such a statement.

The claim that it is done to 'protect' females from sexual assault is nonsense IMHO. The reason they are separate is because of society's outdated prudishness.
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Maybe you're right.

Whatever.
 
Constitutional law is not arbitrary

Baron Max said:

So, Tiassa, in effect, for you, it's okay to discriminate against some people for some things, but not gay people on marriage rights. Is that about it, Tiassa?
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That's the best you can come up with, Max? How ... predictable.
 
Simon Anders said:
Actually there is little controversy. These men are heterosexual outside of prison.
But it is not as common as rapes of women. And there is a simple reason. Physical strength and a culture of male domination are not advantages in man on man rape in the same ways they are in men on women rape.
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Could simply be a subdivision issue, though even controlling for that, I would assume that men rape women more frequently than men rape men (outside of prison).

Though what frequency of rape is necessary for separation of rooms? Should men & women be further separated in other public places, to protect the women?
 
This is AWESOME! Where are the pictur... statistics! Yes visual statistics of women raping women! And Video! YES!
 
James R said:
The simple answer is: yes, it is okay to discriminate against some people for something, but not ok to discriminate against some people for other things.
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There you go! Now, James, the only thing we have to figure out is ...who decides which discrimination we, as a society, are going to permit? Ahh, I think I have answer ...let's put it to a vote, like they did in California. And whatever the people decide, then that's what we'll do. Okay? Is that okay with you? Oops, or because you're biased on this issue, you think that YOU should decide?

James R said:
Now, you tell me, Baron Max, what harm-minimisation principle justifies the gay marriage ban, since I assume from your other examples that this is what you have in mind.
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Geez, James, I don't know exactly. But the voters in California seem to feel that giving gays marriage rights somehow harms them and/or their ideals of marriage. I mean, if the voters didn't think that it harms them or society in some way, then why didn't they vote differently?

This gay marriage thing kinda' reminds me of little kids playing at marriage. And the Mommy almost always says something, "No, honey, that's not really marriage ...marriage is something else, like between your daddy and me. Now run along and play another game." Is that what gays are doing?

"Harm"? What is that exactly? Can one be "harmed" emotionally? Can a society be "harmed"?

Baron Max
 
It's good to see that some issues never die here on Sciforums. Absolutely, gay marriage is wrong, and the folks in CA have every right to discriminate based on that belief.

I don't see any point in rehashing the same points already expressed by our champion, so I wont bother.
 
Bowser said:
It's good to see that some issues never die here on Sciforums. Absolutely, gay marriage is wrong, and the folks in CA have every right to discriminate based on that belief.

I don't see any point in rehashing the same points already expressed by our champion, so I wont bother.
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Why is it wrong?

And since this is a science forum, you have to use logic, evidence, and common sense. Not one of those things; all three of them.
 
Men and women having separate bathrooms is a form of discrimination and it would have been abolished if the Equal Rights Amendment had ever passed. Personally I don't see a real need for the separation of the sexes. I believe it to be equally an awkward situation if anyone man or woman catches you on the toilet. I like that women's bathrooms usually aren't as disgusting looking as the men's but to be honest I don't get why people care so much. Just like with gay marriage. Except I think you'd have a more valid claim with the bathroom thing since that would actually affect you personally. A gay couple (they did get married in July) lives across the hall from me and despite the close quarters their relationship hasn't had an effect on me what so ever. (Except for that time their microwave blew up). It's the heterosexual couple next door to me who need to move their bed's headboard off of the wall, because I'm tired of being shaken awake at 4:35am.
 
Most women are very modest. I don't believe universal bathroom rights would do well in our society.
 
um cutsie you do realise that though there are indervidual cubicals in female toilets generally in male toilets there is only 1 or 2 of them and a "pissing wall". Men are used to floping there penis out next to other men and pissing but i doubt they would be as comfertable using a urinal if women were in there as well. We all deserve some level of privacy
 
Asguard said:
um cutsie you do realise that though there are indervidual cubicals in female toilets generally in male toilets there is only 1 or 2 of them and a "pissing wall". Men are used to floping there penis out next to other men and pissing but i doubt they would be as comfertable using a urinal if women were in there as well. We all deserve some level of privacy
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And the women's bathrooms at the beach don't have doors. Men don't seem to have a problem peeing any where, but maybe they are more self-conscious than I realize, when they pee on trees, bushes, walls, and of course when writing their names on the ground. I was only speaking from experience. The dormitory bathrooms where I studied at the summer after high school were unisex, and that included the sinks, toilets, and showers. I was kind of nervous at first, but it turned out to not be a big deal. Bathroom was just the bathroom.
 
Bowser said:
You don't see its connection between human biology and marriage? It fits nicely within the dictates of biology 101.
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I'm not married so my idealism may be a bit off, but there is more to being married to someone then just sex, isn't there? I mean married couples do other things with their free-time.
 
cutsie i know IM more self conciouse than that, i dont even leave the door open for my own toilet if PB is near (if she comes into that end of the house i close the door) and she has seen every bit of me:p
 
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