Originally posted by Cris
Vienna, But real life is not a video game where you can reset the score and start again. Your mistakes are permanent. The slate cannot be wiped clean.
That applies to everyone on this planet
Like I said, actions taken cannot be taken back. Dealing with mistakes and learning how to deal with them is an important part of real life and reality. It is largely through adversity and difficulties that we learn and grow and gain wisdom.
I agree.
Trying to pretend through religion that we are not really responsible is indefensible and immoral.
Exactly. There are people like this too, total frauds. But on the other hand there are geniune people who take the Lords forgiveness in the correct and most serious way, and they do benefit from it.
Once we accept our own faults and understand that we must take personal responsibility for them helps us better understand others and enables us to help them.
It is only right that what you say is followed, and only then can forgiveness be given.
That’s certainly the claim but it seems more like a sales gimmick in religious indoctrination. It is trying to make people feel there is an escape from their feelings of guilt, but there isn’t. The real lesson in life is accepting responsibility for your actions and knowing that you must live with them. Trying to make them vanish is irresponsible escapism.
It seems that I have a different outlook to "Forgiveness". Jesus's death at the cross should never be used as some sort of sales gimmick. I have seen chick tracts and such, they are so degrading so I am not suprised you called it a sales gimmick.
There is always guilt when forgiveness is given, without guilt there is no forgiveness. Forgiveness is not there to ease the pain of guilt , forgiveness is from the Lord, which contributes to your continuation on your path as a Christian. It is not a case of "plunk plink fizz" have a couple of tablets, "there there now you will feel better". This couldn't be further from the truth
I understand what you mean perfectly, but is has no meaning neither it is useful for dealing with reality or how humanity must learn to deal with their problems in a responsible manner. Giving up their responsibilities to a fantasy god keeps mankind from socially evolving.
Giving up responsibilities is not the issue, just because you are forgiven, it doesn't take away the self punishing guilt away in a flash, you have to learn from it.
Forgiveness is not what is needed; the idea is over simplistic and rather infantile. The issue is how to come to terms with past mistakes and to take full responsibility for future actions.
Forgiveness has always been over simplistic and infantile, (Thats probably why He is called Our Father, we are His children.) How to come to terms with past mistakes is something everyone in the world has to face, we all make them. Forgiveness is not a pardon, it is not an excuse to go out and kill another person or any other wrong doing, forgiveness is a stepping stone to help along the path and life of a Christian.
Interestingly this is the primary issue within the Church of Scientology (the L Ron Hubbard religion). They label such issues as psychological engrams and help their adherents ‘clear’ such inhibitions. I spent some time researching them about 3 years ago; I have of course since been permanently expelled – it seemed I asked too many questions. But some of the principles they have identified are quite sound.
Wow, expelled eh?
What on earth do they want you to do, just sit there and say nothing. No one gets anywhere without asking questions.
]It is not a weight but a reminder of reality and responsibility. Christians try to avoid both.
True Christians do not avoid reality and responsibility, these are (amongst others) qualities which jesus preached.
Cris, I must add that I do not believe I can be a Christian myself although my preferences in Faith point towards Jesus. I have so many doubts, I have lost my temper with God, I have ridiculed the idea of Jesus myself,. But sooner or later it all comes back again and it all makes sense. I stopped going to church, I learned nothing there. In fact I have learned more from the internet than I could ever wish for. I don't agree with everything in the Bible, it is just like any other book of faith it is riddled with errors. But I took my time and read it, and I took from it the most meaningful passages. Tailor made eh? Sort of.
