Burning the flag.

mark01970 said:
Because when you burn a cross you are not just burning two pieces of wood, you are expressing an act of intellectual violence against the symbol of something you are unhappy with. Any act of violence whether intellectual or physical against any belief system's symbols inspires feelings of anger and thirst for vengeance.
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In case of the cross it should be ok, since christians are supposed to turn the other cheek and not feel inspired to anger or thirst of vengeance.
 
I've only seen people burning a flag twice. Once on the episode of The Simpsons when Homer accidentally burnt Lisa's fiance's flag and on the news.
Have we any flag burners present? Please explain why people burn flags in their own country..this thought is beyond my small mind.
 
I don't understand how burning a flag can offend anyone. Maybe crashing a couple of planes and killing people, but burning a flag??? Like someone previously said, as long as no-one else is hurt...
 
Technically you have to burn a flag when it touches the ground.

Hence if you are planning to burn the flag, just let it touch the ground a bit, and nobody can complain about burning it.

Ironically many patriotic people probably have a flag that has touched the ground at one point or another and are actually disrespecting their country. [sarcasm]They should go to china[/sarcasm].
 
mark01970 said:
Because when you burn a cross you are not just burning two pieces of wood, you are expressing an act of intellectual violence against the symbol of something you are unhappy with. Any act of violence whether intellectual or physical against any belief system's symbols inspires feelings of anger and thirst for vengeance.
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I think a burning cross has a VERY different symbolism, don't you? It's not anti-christian at all, when used by the KKK, now, is it?

But, retard racists aside, if I burned a cross as an atheist, it wouldn't be a violent act, but merely an expression if dissent. It's not about vengeance, or any of the rather over dramatic terms you used, but the freedom to demonstrate.

Flags, crosses etc are just symbols. Any nation with a law against flag burning is not free. So that's the USA, and France. You guys have more in common than you think.
 
spuriousmonkey said:
Technically you have to burn a flag when it touches the ground.

Hence if you are planning to burn the flag, just let it touch the ground a bit, and nobody can complain about burning it.
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What does it mean if it touches the ground? :confused:
 
I only know that in earlier times (in medieval times) the flag of an army in combat was only brought on the ground when defeat was admitted. Perhaps it somehow evolved from that.

And I think people put too much into symbols. If I would burn down the pope it would be an attack on christians, but burning some oieces of wood? Just because I burn some wrappings from McDonalds doesn´t mean that I want to attack the fast food industry.
 
phlogistician said:
I think a burning cross has a VERY different symbolism, don't you? It's not anti-christian at all, when used by the KKK, now, is it?

But, retard racists aside, if I burned a cross as an atheist, it wouldn't be a violent act, but merely an expression if dissent. It's not about vengeance, or any of the rather over dramatic terms you used, but the freedom to demonstrate.

Flags, crosses etc are just symbols. Any nation with a law against flag burning is not free. So that's the USA, and France. You guys have more in common than you think.
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I don't know. It just seems wrong that someone would want to burn the very artifact that symbolizes the very freedom they have to protest. Conflict of interest?

..and I feel very strongly about the flag of my country. The flag my family members have died defending, and probably yours as well. I don't think I am being over dramatic. I am being as dramatic as I feel. It may seem stronger than you deem worthy, but that is your opinion, and I respect it.
 
.and I feel very strongly about the flag of my country. The flag my family members have died defending, and probably yours as well.
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Mmh, you might have a point there. I do not have such a strong connection to a flag because my family members died defending other flags and other ideals (me being German and some family members died in WW I&II)
So I would say that a flag is still just a piece of cloth, until you attach importance to it.
 
They are not dieing for a piece of cloth they are dieing for the ideals and principals that that piece of cloth stands for. One of the ideals that that cloth stands for is the freedom to express yourself in any way that does not harm another citizen. It does not protect the citizen from getting their feelings hurt. It just protects them physically and economically. Flag burning is a healthy expression of tolerance and it should be defended as such. Let the wackos burn the flag that oppresses them so.
 
i hate people who walk around saying things like "you cant do that because i knew men who died for that flag", well heres a tip. My grandfather died as a result of radiation poisioning from occupying japan and i bloody well KNOW that he would turn in his grave at arguments like this. For some reason solders are always portraied as conservatives. HE was for a republic (not like a US reblicAN i must add), he was a unionest, he was a labor suporter to his grave and his moto was "i may dissagree with your opinion but i would die so that you can have it". Does that sound like a man who would be happy with people being beaten for a flag?

i know he wouldnt, for all i know he probably burned them at one of the MANY protests he went to. Maybe for example the protest against the sacking of Goth Whitlam
 
Burning Latvia's flag in Latvia is prohibited by law.
I think that is right. You are under the protection of the laws/constitution of the country you are in and then you better pay minimum respect to it.
 
In America there are laws separating church and state when you start to protect an object based on belief you have crossed over into the territory of religion. I respect the flag and will salute it and stand at attention when it passes, but I will not worship a piece of cloth nor will I allow anyone to tell me that I must treat an object as a privileged person. That is idolatry by my belief and I want to be protected from that kind of hysteria by the constitution of America.
 
well, in Latvia nobody salutes it or does anything like that. it seems quite funny that they do so in the states.
it's a cloth that is prohibited to burn or change it in any manner (draw a cross on it, etc)
 
I have served in the military and have gone through a lot of hardship to earn the right to talk the talk. My family is evenly divided on this issue. Two veterans and one civilian are for burning rights. One civilian and one veteran are against flag burning. It aggravates me when people spout off if you had fought for the flag you would respect it more I assure them that I have served and they tend to change the subject. Why is it the ones who are usually the loudest on this issue are the ones who have not served?
 
maybe because this is an example of the opression they were fighting?

Sometimes returned servicemen really annoy me tho. Like the head of the RSL getting involved with the republican debate. Its really appaling that someone could abuse there position like that and even abuse remberance day the same way. I respect those who have served but i wont leave my country to stagnate because of them. If the country cant move forward then what was the point of them fighting? It would be a betrayal of my grandfather if i didnt stand up. Unfortunatly i was too young to vote in the referendum but i was proud that i lived in the only state to surport a rebulic.

as to the flag. well the flag is just cotton. It means nothing in reality. If i dyed it a different colour then no one would complaine about burning it (except maybe enviromentalists:p) but because its "the flag" it means something more?

No it means nothing. I dont salute the flag. I would seem stupid if i did. in australia we also dont HAVE a oath like the US does and i wouldnt say it if we did. A country is there to serve her people and NEVER the other way around. Its quite dangrouse to even THINK it could be the other way because that leads to Hitlers. I feel more pride when i see people in green and gold at a sports match than i do when i see a piece of cloth because its PEOPLE who are Australia not an antham, not an oath and not a flag.
 
burning the american flag is an expression of free speech, the very thing that America stands for. so burning the flag can be a contradiction if you are burning it because you dont like america, but if you are burning it because you dont like a particular policy or politician, then it is a perfect example of free speech.

banning burning the flag, makes burning the flag neccesary - banning flagburnings is preventing free speech, and must be stopped at any cost (obviously controlls need to be put on flag burning - the flag's owner must give permition for it to be burnt, you mustnt burn it where it could start a large fire or anythign stupid like that)

so basically, if burning the american flag becomes banned i am gonna buy a bunch of american flags by the next day, and burn the hell out of em
 
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