Burning the flag.

I got to sum it up here... your rights end at the point you violate other's rights. Some misinterpret the freedom of speech. One cannot force people to pay attention to "you" unless the audience chooses to listen. Like, I should not be alowd to burn a flag in a crowded park without notification that I will be doing so and the intended audience has been informed they may leave.
 
sum it up? although you've done a nice job of wrapping this entire issue up into a nice logistical bundle that, but in truth answers only partially the issue, ethical problems unfortunately cannot be packaged up so easily. You see, burning a flag, anytime, anywhere, where it may be seen, may offend some people, and for that reason it should be just as restricted indecent exposure, loud noise etc. No matter how YOU look at the issue of burning a flag, it WILL offend, disgust, and disrespect a lot of people in this country, and for that it is childish, immature, and as crude a demonstration as anything. To you it may be a piece of cotton, to many it is far more dear, and to burn that symbolism which they see in it, primarily to draw attention to you, is pathetic. :bugeye:
 
this is a democratic country not a perfect one, the laws reflect what the majority of the population desires. he who thinks flag burning is right, possibly a minority, can be defeated just that easily, in a vote. majority rules, not perfect ethics and most people will find offense and disrespect in the burning of a national symbol
 
Did you read my post?

A constitutional amendment has to be ratified by a 2/3 majority of the states before it can become law.
The founding fathers made amending the constitution difficult for a reason.

Popular speech doesn't need to be defended, only unpopular speech.

"You have no right to not be offended." -Nadine Strossen
 
we aren't talking about amending the constitution here my friend. we aren't changing freedom of speech. you Can go out into a crowded public area and start streaking, but you Will be arrested. burning a flag is essentially no different from indecent exposure.
 
Originally posted by 4DHyperCubix
I got to sum it up here... your rights end at the point you violate other's rights.
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True. If I burn the flag in your presence how have I violated your rights? Your rights do not extend to my activities right? If you allow yourself to be emotionally attached to a can of coke I can't stop you, but you have no right to stop me if I crush one because I feel like it. It does you NO harm. You do YOURSELF harm if you are offended.
Originally posted by 4DHyperCubix
Some misinterpret the freedom of speech. One cannot force people to pay attention to "you" unless the audience chooses to listen.
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Okay we agree?
Originally posted by 4DHyperCubix

Like, I should not be alowd to burn a flag in a crowded park without notification that I will be doing so and the intended audience has been informed they may leave.
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Okay that's confusing because now you seem to be saying the opposite thing. We don't agree? Which is it damnit?
 
Originally posted by 4DHyperCubix
I One cannot force people to pay attention to "you" unless the audience chooses to listen. Like, I should not be alowd to burn a flag in a crowded park without notification that I will be doing so and the intended audience has been informed they may leave.
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uh... did i miss something here? Did the issue turn into a debate about flag burners kidnaping people, restraining them, and forcing them to watch the flag being burned?
 
Originally posted by okinrus
People who have served their country, love their flag almost as much as the country. So because these people have died and served for our country, I think that we owe them something.
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I Love it when people who have never served in the military happen to know exactly how people who have beenn in the military think and feel (Hint, they are all concervatives who love jesus, the flag, and hate liberals and other such hippies)
 
Well this is from people I know who have served in the Military such as my Grandfather etc. Obviously this does not speak for all veterans and some actually don't want the ban. And no, I'm not conservative or liberal.
 
Originally posted by okinrus
Well this is from people I know who have served in the Military such as my Grandfather etc. Obviously this does not speak for all veterans and some actually don't want the ban. And no, I'm not conservative or liberal.
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I served in the Military.
I never would have if flag burning was banned.

Originally posted by Slipz
You see, burning a flag, anytime, anywhere, where it may be seen, may offend some people, and for that reason it should be just as restricted indecent exposure, loud noise etc. No matter how YOU look at the issue of burning a flag, it WILL offend, disgust, and disrespect a lot of people in this country, and for that it is childish, immature, and as crude a demonstration as anything.
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Ohhh I see.
So, the first ammendment only applies if you don't offend anyone?
Makes sense now! :rolleyes:

The WHOLE point of protecting frredom of speech is to allow you to say things that people don't want to hear.
If you never said anything that offended anyone, there would be no purpose in protecting your right to say it.
Before you say that burning a flag is not covered by the first ammendment, let me remind you of Repo Man's Link.
Did you bother reading it?
It says thet the US Supreme Court says you are wrong.
 
Originally posted by okinrus
Well this is from people I know who have served in the Military such as my Grandfather etc.
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So do you think being in the military has anything to do with it? I did four years an two wars (a military action and a war I guess). I can't stand it when people are so shallow as to think that flag burning should even be an issue. This country is SUPPOSED to be about freedom. Your position on this issue maintains only the illusion thereof. (GK: while the illusion is necessary, the real thing is BETTER if it can be maintained)
 
Wait, i don't know if i'm missing something entirely, but if we're talking in such a logical manner, and on the subject of freedom of speech once again, let's look at exactly what it seems, in writing, to cover... hmmmm speech? to my knowledge burning a flag does involve the use of vocal chords and therefore is probably stretching the limits of that amendment. Should displaying one's genitalia in public be covered? I hate to keep going back to that, but the only reason it is illegal is BECAUSE IT OFFENDS PEOPLE. Now i'm sure this will spark a debate of it's own, but that's been going on since the constitution was designed.
 
i wonder what George Washington would have said if he were alive today regarding the flag or genetalia exposure.....
 
Originally posted by otheadp
i wonder what George Washington would have said if he were alive today regarding the flag or genetalia exposure.....
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Im sure he would be in favor of that second item. Its a little known fact that the 2nd amendment was origonaly about pornography, so many of our founding fathers were amature pornographers, it wasnt until the mid 40's that it was changed to read "The right of the people to bear arms shall not be infringed"

Note:Just a little joke because i thought pondering what Washington would think of public exposure is a very silly thing to do
 
The WHOLE point of protecting frredom of speech is to allow you to say things that people don't want to hear.
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Umm but if all you're doing is disrespecting a nation and people, offending many then whats the point of doing it in the first place, if you want people to hear what you have to say write an article about it and post it / submit it to a magazine or something - running around being an immature nusiance offending and disrespecting people is not the same as having the right to voice your opinion on an matter.
 
Originally posted by duke
Umm but if all you're doing is disrespecting a nation and people, offending many then whats the point of doing it in the first place
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That is juvenile. What the *** are you talking about? If I offend you it's my fault? TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR REACTION TO WHATEVER. If I'm *** off about the government and I feel like burning a flag, or I need some warmth and a flag is all I have to burn, or if I'm out of toilet paper and a flag is the only thing I have to wipe my ass with, whether or not your little *** (the proverbial you) is offended is NOT MY CONCERN. ***YOU (the proverbial you) if you're so SHALLOW as to take offense at my ass wiping or flag burning. It is exactly your (you, not the proverbial you) assenine/juvenile/pussy attitude that is the fucking problem with this country. Everyone's *** hurts because of what everyone else is doing. You (back to the proverbial you for the rest of the post) should see a doctor if your *** hurts, don't blame it on every one else. Maybe you shouldn't have let the football team *** it. Take responsibility. If you are offended at what I do, but I haven't phsyically or economically messed you up, then it's YOUR problem. Argh. I can't stand this bullshit of everyone pointing at everyone else as the root of all their *** problems. YOU are the root of your problems you *** ***. Get your shit together.

Mod edit: keep it clean
 
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maybe that guy a few posts ago was actualy talking about taking a proverbial baseball bat to the proverbial head of a proverbial flag burner :p
 
:( Such nasty language... if you have no concern for how others feel about your actions then go ahead, wipe your ass with a flag, since you cant afford toilet paper :p . Obviosly you have no care as to what others think of your actions, so go ahead, burn the flag in a public park and see what people think of you. I'm curious though, what good comes from burning the flag in a public place? What does one get from it, besides attention.

Yes, technically you may be able to burn the flag, and i don't see a real good reason to make it illegal. But what point is there to it, are you demonstrating something, your rashness? Hotheadedness? Dislike for the country? As well as the right to burn the flag, you have the right to become a citizen of another country, so if you hate this country so much as to burn the flag, why not go marry into another country.



(of course this is all the proverbial you)
 
Originally posted by duke
[B As well as the right to burn the flag, you have the right to become a citizen of another country, so if you hate this country so much as to burn the flag, why not go marry into another country. [/B]
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That's exactly right, I'm glad you said this. Duke's statement is clearly correct because this nation was in fact not founded on the idea that the governed have the right to show disaproval for the government, it was also founded on the idea that individual citizens do not have either the right or the power to enact political change, nor do they have the right to express their political views. For that reason, if you feel like burning the flag, you should just get the hell out of dodge. [/sarcasm]

Yeah, that makes a whole lot of sence, doesn't it?
 
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