burden of proof and existence of god

[whatsupyall]

Originally posted by Slacker47
Whatsupyall,

Stop stalling. Answer the questions presented to you. Usually, those you do not believe in God have evidence to back up claims. To keep the conversation going, you need to punctually answer with out accusing people of ignorance because, sadly, you are the one who is having the most trouble proving your case.

I had this debate already weeks ago. I can also say "stop stalling, answer me and give me evidence that King Henry exist, GIVE ME PROOF AND STOP RAMBLING"...Many atheist children are blinded....

Originally posted by Slacker47

If God has the power to change events in all parts of time, why would he let so many innocent people die?.

You are very late with this convo, we had this debate in "God does exist" posts, and I already terminated the atheist's claims...

Originally posted by Slacker47

Ask your self this: as a Christian, you expect to hopefully go to Heaven, but where will all of the people who do not accpet Jesus go? Read a Bible, you might be surprised....

God so loved the Earth......?

Thats why God teaches us all to have faith, for the harvest are many, but workers are few..So many posts from different children heree, but I cannot answer them all. I myself am mortal, and my brain does need rest...
Whoever accept the virtue of love,patience, respect, kindness, generousity, humility, etc. accepted jesus christ. For he is the "Word incarnate", the virtue of life. If you accept Jesus, it means you accepted the virtues, whether you carry the title buddhism, or hinduism, it is by your virtue that you are judged...If you reject jesus christ, you reject the virtues (love, generousity,etc.) whether you carry the title "christian" or not, you rejected christ indeed..
some even have the title of "sinfull man" like the thief on the cross, but went to paradise because of his humility. Jesus does not discriminate, he loves all, sinners or not, pagans or not, christians or not, he gave the sun to rise for all regardless. Even the humble pagans and tax collectors who at the time was considered "evil men" Jesus accepted and loved......
Have faith in the virtues, be steadfast and patient.At the end the reward is great, THAT IS THE REASON WHY WE EXIST, TO BE VIRTOUOS AND MORALLY GOOD, WILLING TO GIVE UP EVERY PENNY TO SAVE ONE CHILD....Many think we exist to have fun and do whatever feels good (as many atheist children teaches, how sad, blinded.) we didnt exist to be greedy and self centered, OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD ARE DYING OF STARVATION, LONELINESS, PERSECUTION, what do you do about it????

 

[VAKEMP]

whatsupyall,

we had this debate in "God does exist" posts, and I already terminated the atheist's claims...

In your own mind you did, but that's only because you didn't really take the time to think about what you were saying.

Your argument was that you knew with 100% certainty that your cousin would pick the video game over playing with the dog...yet he still has freewill to choose. The bottom line is you can't have 100% certainty of what people do, so your argument was invalid.

 

[Xelios]

Listen kid..There is no end to splitting an atom...

Listen, kid, she's right. Light is the theoretical maximum speed that can be achieved in normal space. No amount of technology will break the laws of physics, at least not for a long time to come. We've gotten particles up to 99.9999% the speed of light but it's not possible to get it to 100%, because as you approach the speed of light an object's mass increases. As the mass increases you need to input more energy to accelerate it. Just before the speed of light the energy input required to accelerate the object becomes infinite. Unless you can figure out a way to input an infinite amount of energy into an object this law stays the way it is.

Well then, that is just the name to replace the word "soul"...

Well then whatsup, take some amino acid and stick a soul in it and create some life. Come on now don't be shy, go right ahead and create life. Oh you can't? Then souls must not exist.

Fact... Not one scientist can create any life forms...

Fact. Not one theist can create life forms. Fact. This will never change as religion does not progress with time. Fact. Science does progress with time, so it's logical to assume we will one day (very soon) be able to create life using science.

DONT EVEN MAKE LIFE FORMS AS EXAMPLES WHEN YOU DONT EVEN KNOW HOW IT EXIST TO BEGIN WITH OK KID....

Only if you promise not to take souls as an example if you can't even detect them.

You made a claim there is no soul? WELL THEN PROVE YOUR CLAIM, if you say "the burden of proof lies on those who made a claim", well then, practice what you preace..wheres the evidence that a soul is a myth?

MM are just pretending to be this stupid or where you born this way? Listen to what I'm about to say MM, because this is the last time I will say it.

You made the claim that souls exist. There is no reason to believe they do. Because of this, you must provide the evidence, not I.

YOU are the one who made the claim here, not me, not Maia. YOU claimed souls exist, we simply don't believe you. As such, YOU must provide the evidence that they do. Get it now?

 

[OldSchoolThinker]

evolution does have a basis in fact

Inspector, if you open your mind and but aside your
beliefs for a second, there is fact in Evolution.

Scientists compared the DNA of human beings
and Chimpanzees. They found out there is only
a ONE percent difference between our DNA and theirs.

You might protest at this, but ONE percent different in one's
genetic makeup means alot.)

But anyway, this shows that Human beings and Chimpanzees
are related. It is highly likely that we have a common ancestor.
Dont talk about us being descended from Apes, because that
is a common misconception about the Evolutionary theory.

Whether you believe it or not, evolution is a fact of nature.
Organisms change over time. Genes change the makeup of entire
generations. The theory is just a way of explaining how it could of occured. Thats theory. So evolution is a fact and theory.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Phaedrus,

I am not a dualist, I am something of a materialist. You are wrong if you say that if we completely comprehend energy then the universe would be completely revealed. For example, even if you completely understood energy, you would not know what time I woke up this morning. Also, knowledge of energy is not everything. By saying that you are assuming that all theories reduce to energy, which is wrong.

When I sai the universe would be completly revealed I meant the laws of the universe, how it works, and not everything that happens all around...

Tell me one theory that don't "reduce" to energy...

Also, I am not the one who said "the mind and the brain are separate", I do not know if you thought that it was me or not since the article was addressed to me. Also, I am wondering what you mean by soul, and how does it interact with the body. Next, since I have a spirit, I am wondering how it interacts with my body, how does it have a causal relationship if it is non-physical.

I know it wasn't you, but I knew you didn't agree with it...

By soul I mean our personalities, our thoughts, our emotions, our will.
You don't have a spirit, you are a spirit, and spirit is life itself. They have a causal relationship even though they are very different. Atoms are very tiny and they still can influence a lot our lifes. They might be a whole lot different then us and really small, but that doesn't mean they cannot have a "relationship" with you.
Again, water in a bottle. the water is very different then the bottle. The bottle is very physical, so it holds the water. The water has physical aspects, so it is holded inside the bottle. The water has also some other aspects that are very different then the bottle. It's atoms are much more separated then the bottle's.

With your spirit and body is almost the same thing. The difference is that your body doesn't completly hold your spirit. Your spirit stays in the body but your body is not stronger than your spirit. Your spirit lives in your body but also connects itself to God. I won't go there... it's way too early...

That's a little bit strange for the mind... I know that...

Also, the Buddhist tale is a good one, however are you offering up the idea that all is one?

That too. And also how we affect each other. That thing can be interpreted in many different ways and they are all still right...

 

[Slacker47]

Whatsupyall,

we didnt exist to be greedy and self centered, OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD ARE DYING OF STARVATION, LONELINESS, PERSECUTION, what do you do about it????

How dare you judge me. I spend two months every year travelling to foreign countries to build houses and I bring tons of medication for the people. You have no idea who I am and how I live my life. I sold my car because it pollutes the environment, can you say that you did that? Do not ever judge me again. You would cry if you heard my life story. I cut myself because of people like you. Your ignorance makes me sick.

 

[Xelios]

Don't mind whatsupyall, Slacker. His ignorance and arrogance seem only to be matched by his lack of maturity.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Slacker47,

Ask your self this: as a Christian, you expect to hopefully go to Heaven, but where will all of the people who do not accpet Jesus go? Read a Bible, you might be surprised....

God so loved the Earth......?

Who ever Loves (in the real sense) goes to heaven. To accept Jesus in your heart is to accept his cause, and his cause is Love.


Matthew 7:17-23

"17 So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 So then, you will know them by their fruits.
21 Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
22 Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.' "

By those standarts, you ARE a Christian!
And it's really good to be a Christian!

A Christian is someone that chose to Love. Christians should be the most loving, altruist and compassionate people of this planet. Many Christians only say they are Christians by their own set of traditions. However, the True Christian knows and uses the power of Love.

I spend two months every year travelling to foreign countries to build houses and I bring tons of medication for the people. You have no idea who I am and how I live my life. I sold my car because it pollutes the environment, can you say that you did that?

It's clear that you are a loving person. However, I know that sometimes it is hard, but need to be careful not to hurt people, even if they hurt us...

 

[Zero]

Hey Maia, welcome. Didn't know there was a new member here who used nice spelling.

Whatsupyall, it is my painful duty to inform you that your addiction to :m: has finally caused irreparable damage to your nervous system. Have you NEVER heard of relativity or why the fuck lightspeed is the universal speed limit? Ever heard of things gaining mass as they get more energy? Ever read anything else than the bible? Sad.

So then, use your tremendous power of faith to create a life form. No? I'll say the only way for you to do that is like the rest of us. Fuck and impregnate someone. Face it, your god can't create any life form by himself. He depends on humans to do it. If he can I'd like to see it. And don't take jesus as an example, your god depended on mother mary's reproductive ability to pull that one off.

Don't use life as an example? How many times do I have to tell you...don't use souls as an example when you don't even have proof that they exist. And why don't we have an idea of how life works, if we can't make it? Ever heard of all the complex chemical reactions that govern photosynthesis, respiration? Ever heard of ATP? NADPH? Ever read anything other than religious texts? And it's not like your religious denomination has any better clue how life works. If you claim that is does I'd like to see you heal people without the power of medicine and by faith alone. Go ahead, cure someone by prayer. Get any results as reliable as medicine yet? Thought not.

Again, do lay off the crack before it kills you. Please?

__________________________________________
There is no god, afterlife or divine love. There is only Entropy, the mother from which we were all born. She tugs our souls with the beautiful, maternal love of chaos. Why do you keep Her waiting?

-central philosophy of Zero, Sage of Chaos

 

[whatsupyall]

Originally posted by Xelios


You made the claim that souls exist. There is no reason to believe they do. Because of this, you must provide the evidence, not I.

YOU are the one who made the claim here, not me, not Maia. YOU claimed souls exist, we simply don't believe you. As such, YOU must provide the evidence that they do. Get it now?

Xelios, I hope this will also be the last time I said it...You made a claim "Soul is a myth", now prove it......If you cant prove it, then shut up..
I made a claim of soul, and my evidence for that is we live of a "force" we cannot detect, ITS EXISTENCE IS A FACT, now you may call the "force" a "subatomic chupacabra particle" I dont care what are the names you label for it, it is called "soul" for centuries, and you can replace the name with "giant purple squid monkey" whatever, I dont care....
If you dont "BELIEVE" it, then simply say "I dont believe a soul exist", you are entitled to be stupid, I dont care, Im not surprised, your an atheist for a reason...Now if you made a claim that "soul is a myth", THEN PLEASE KINDLY PROVE YOUR CLAIM, AND DEMONSTRATE FOR US THAT IT IS NOT "SOUL" THAT GIVES US LIFE, BUT SOMETHING ELSE...IF YOU CANT PROVE YOUR CLAIM, THEN SHUT YOUR HOLE...aight?

 

[EvilPoet]

Originally posted by whatsupyall
IF YOU CANT PROVE YOUR CLAIM,
THEN SHUT YOUR HOLE...aight?

"Fear and stupidity has always been
the basis of most human actions."
-Albert Einstein

 

[VAKEMP]

whatsupyall,

I made a claim of soul, and my evidence for that is we live of a "force" we cannot detect, ITS EXISTENCE IS A FACT

If you could not explain how a computer does what it does, would you think it too has a soul?

 

[Xelios]

Your ignorance never ceases to amaze me whatsup. You claim to believe in science, yet you don't even understand the fundemental basics of how the scientific method works. The soul's existance is not proven, and I challenge you to ask any biologist if it is. I know exactly what they'll tell you, it's not. You are the only one here who believes it's proven to exist, no one else on this board believes this (that I'm aware of) not even the other theists. Doesn't this give you some kind of hint?

You claim souls exist, I don't believe you. You must provide the evidence to change my mind. I have not made any claim, I simply don't believe the claim you made. Once again, I have not made a claim, I simply don't believe your claim that souls exist. I'll try to make it even clearer. I am not claiming that souls don't exist!. I am neutral on the issue, now it is your job to convince me they exist. Now in your own words, "IF YOU CANT PROVE YOUR CLAIM,
THEN SHUT YOUR HOLE...aight? ". This is my last try, if what I wrote is still too hard for you to comprehend then you are truely beyond my help.

 

[Zero]

...and he fails to answer.

He's down for the count! One! Two! Three! Four! ...

__________________________________________
There is no god, afterlife or divine love. There is only Entropy, the mother from which we were all born. She tugs our souls with the beautiful, maternal love of chaos. Why do you keep Her waiting?

-central philosophy of Zero, Sage of Chaos

 

[whatsupyall]

Originally posted by Xelios
Your ignorance never ceases to amaze me whatsup. You claim to believe in science, yet you don't even understand the fundemental basics of how the scientific method works. The soul's existance is not proven, and I challenge you to ask any biologist if it is. I know exactly what they'll tell you, it's not. You are the only one here who believes it's proven to exist, no one else on this board believes this (that I'm aware of) not even the other theists. Doesn't this give you some kind of hint?

O yeah? Ask some biologist and scientists, there are also those who said that evolution cannot be proven, others claim it can, others claim that soul can be proven, others dont. Others believe God is a myth, others dont.
Point being= We are not talking about statistics, because if we are, YOUR ATHEISM COMPARED TO THE GENERAL POPULATION IS NOTHING..I repeat, it is nothing...maybe under 0.9 % of the pop..but because "GENERAL BELIEF" doesnt concern you, then THATS NONE OF MY CONCERN as well...
Bottom line here is that we exist, we live, and life is a force we cannot detect in which we label as "soul" and you are entitled to call the force "subatomic monosodium glutamate chemical substance", or "chemical reactor quantum particle" or "giant purple squid monkey" YOU CAN CHANGE THE NAME HOWEVER YOU PLEASE, BUT THE FACT HERE IS THAT IT EXIST......PERIOD...AGAIN IT EXIST, ONE MORE TIME, "IT EXIST"...THATS A FACT, INDEED A FACT, AND AGAIN U ARE ENTITLED TO USE ANY TYPE OF NAMES YOU LABEL FOR IT....

Originally posted by Xelios

You claim souls exist, I don't believe you. You must provide the evidence to change my mind. I have not made any claim, I simply don't believe the claim you made. Once again, I have not made a claim, I simply don't believe your claim that souls exist. I'll try to make it even clearer. I am not claiming that souls don't exist!. I am neutral on the issue, now it is your job to convince me they exist. Now in your own words, "IF YOU CANT PROVE YOUR CLAIM,
THEN SHUT YOUR HOLE...aight? ". This is my last try, if what I wrote is still too hard for you to comprehend then you are truely beyond my help.

Thats your decision, if you decided to be stupid and say "MY EXISTENCE IS A MYTH AND LIFE IS A MYTH", then fine...welcome to the world of P.A.N. (psychiatric aid needed).
Others believe earth is 6,000 years old, others also believe in U.F.O..YOU ARE ENTITLED TO YOUR BELIEFS, THATS FINE WITH ME.
You dont want to believe a soul exist, LOL, well ok. Just a clue, some people also believe that 9 months old babies are "not humans" but a blob of tissue, it only becomes human if "you decided to keep it", and now it is a human baby..You think they are stupid? Then take a look in the mirror, youll see another victim of the father of lies...

 

[Squid Vicious]

Originally posted by Cris
If you can also reply and at the same time maintain high levels of courtesy then you will have gained significantly in personal development.

In that case, sir, I hereby challenge you to a duel, with pistol and sword, on the morrow at dawn. You may have only one attendant, who shall not be under arms.

If you fail to present yourself at this time, I shall have no option but to name you coward, and shall thereby make off with your daughter and your horse.

That how you like it?

And your sig..

People should be free to do anything they wish except where such actions would interfere with the freedom of others.

If I wish to call whatshishoosey a complete and utter dick, I am not interfering with his freedom to be one in any way. So, your sig seems to be at odds with your notion of behavioural standards.

Yes, I'm aware this is completely OT, but then this thread degenerated into a cesspool several pages ago.

 

[Xelios]

Thats your decision, if you decided to be stupid and say "MY EXISTENCE IS A MYTH AND LIFE IS A MYTH", then fine...welcome to the world of P.A.N. (psychiatric aid needed).

See? I knew you had no proof of the soul's existance. You have no proof of anything you say, and I think most people on this board would agree with me that it is you who needs the psychiatric aid, not I.

Point being= We are not talking about statistics, YOUR ATHEISM COMPARED TO THE GENERAL POPULATION IS NOTHING..I repeat, it is nothing...maybe under 0.9 % of the pop

What percentage of the population knows about the wave-particle duality theory? Or the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle? Maybe 10 or 20% at the most? Does that make them wrong? Of course not. And while we're talking about statistics, Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, Catholicism is declining.

Bottom line here is that we exist, we live, and life is a force we cannot detect

The first two premises are correct, the third is simply your opinion.

YOU CAN CHANGE THE NAME HOWEVER YOU PLEASE, BUT THE FACT HERE IS THAT IT EXIST......PERIOD

Nope, the fact is that no one has proven it to exist, not even you. Again, just your opinion.

AGAIN IT EXIST, ONE MORE TIME, "IT EXIST"...THATS A FACT, INDEED A FACT, AND AGAIN U ARE ENTITLED TO USE ANY TYPE OF NAMES YOU LABEL FOR IT....

You have to learn that repeating something over and over again does not make it true.

Others believe earth is 6,000 years old, others also believe in U.F.O..YOU ARE ENTITLED TO YOUR BELIEFS, THATS FINE WITH ME.

That's fine with me too. The problem, however, arises when people such as yourself claim they have proof of these things and then refuse to show that proof. Everyone knows they have nothing, but they refuse to admit that like the rest of us. I admit I have no proof of macro-evolution, however you cannot admit you have no proof of souls when you so obviously don't. If you do, then here's your last chance, show me and everyone else on this board your proof of souls. If you show me proof of their existance, and we can all agree that it's proof, I will personally delete my account here and never bother you again.

Just a clue, some people also believe that 9 months old babies are "not humans" but a blob of tissue, it only becomes human if "you decided to keep it", and now it is a human baby..You think they are stupid?

Some people also believe the Earth is 6000 years old. I think that is stupid as well. Some people also believe they can prove souls exist, again, stupid.

Then take a look in the mirror, youll see another victim of the father of lies...

The only lies I am a victim of here are yours whatsup.

 

[whatsupyall]

Originally posted by Xelios
See? I knew you had no proof of the soul's existance. You have no proof of anything you say, and I think most people on this board would agree with me that it is you who needs the psychiatric aid, not I.

Because the evidence I presented isnt valid to you, then I can also say "see, you have no proof Shakespeare exist, you have no proof of anything you say"...

Originally posted by Xelios

What percentage of the population knows about the wave-particle duality theory? Or the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle? Maybe 10 or 20% at the most? Does that make them wrong? Of course not. And while we're talking about statistics, Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, Catholicism is declining..

Indeed, many are believers of God..thank you for claryfying that FACT... (because you want to talk about "general" view and statistics (but in the convo b4 you insist that "general view dont matter" but now you are coming back to statistics again, YOU ARE SELF CONTRADICTORY, well then, want to talk about succesfull people, the rich, powerfull world leaders? In which atheists are subject to..what their beliefs are? )

Originally posted by Xelios
"Bottom line here is that we exist, we live, and life is a force we cannot detect"

The first two premises are correct, the third is simply your opinion.

XELIOS...DO YOU HAVE BRAIN CELLS? ****, DO YOU THINK WE CAN DETECT AND EXPLAIN HOW LIFE EXIST? ****...YOUR DENYING THE FACT THAT NO SCIENTIST IN THE WHOLE UNIVERSE CAN CREATE ANY LIFE FORMS, EVEN FROM GATHERING AMINO ACIDS, THATS A FCT...AGAIN A FACT, BUT **** YOUR DENYING THIS FACT...And if you insist MAYBE ONE DAY in the FUTURE we can create life forms, then GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR PSYCHIC PREDICTION, but as of now, LIFE IS A ENERGY OR FORCE WE CANNOT DETECT...
Are you going to say "It doesnt mean an intelligent designer did it.." WELL ****, FACT IS EVERYTHING THAT'S FUNCTIONING, COMPLEX AND DETAIL, from biological to technological are effects by intelligent cause, FROM BIOLOGICAL CONCEPTION, TO EVEN TECHNOLOGICAL CONCEPTION, THIS CAN BE DEMONSTRATED...a fact..

You still insist of your idiotic opinion? Ok then, shakespeare, evolution, queen elizabeth, blackhole, god, king henryh are all myths..Period...

Originally posted by Xelios

You have to learn that repeating something over and over again does not make it true.

Being STUPID, and an idiot over and over again does not make your comments right either..

Originally posted by Xelios

That's fine with me too. The problem, however, arises when people such as yourself claim they have proof of these things and then refuse to show that proof. Everyone knows they have nothing, but they refuse to admit that like the rest of us. I admit I have no proof of macro-evolution, however you cannot admit you have no proof of souls when you so obviously don't. If you do, then here's your last chance, show me and everyone else on this board your proof of souls. If you show me proof of their existance, and we can all agree that it's proof, I will personally delete my account here and never bother you again.

Like I was saying evidence is a myth guy...King Henry, blackhole, shakespeare, queen elizabeth, evolution, God are all myths ****.....

note: Why am I name calling? **** You are denying "facts" you are the perfect candidate to be called these names...


<font color="red">Moderator edit: deleted personal abuse. Name calling adds nothing to the discussion.</font>

 

[Phaedrus]

"Bottom line here is that we exist, we live, and life is a force we cannot detect"

I would actually argue that none of these premises are provable. You cannot prove that "we" exist, in the sense that people exist outside of my "reality". You can however prove "I" exist, but I does not necessarily entail a body. And the third premise is incorrect, how can we know that there is a life force that we cannot detect? I know in science there are observations that lead to predictions, but there is no evidence to enail a "lifeforce" that we cannot detect. Anyway, if you say that we cannot detect it without stating that we will eventually be able to, there is no need to concern ourselves over it.

- Phaedrus

 

[adj]

raithere, good observation on the black hole; consider the universe(s) like the tides, waxing and waining, in and out like so many things in nature; what if a "black hole" is simply the "breathing in" cycle that will be followed by a "big bang" as the energy is release again . . . .