British Laws Banning Incitement to religious Hatred

[Stryder]

If the UK is so filled with Christians, How comes I don't know any?. Most of the people I know either suggest there is no god or have some other belief system. (Usually involving Crystals etc )

Of course Britain has a Christian history, however if you are going to start pointing fingers note the religion got here because of the Romans, who had in turn had taken it from some dodgy cult group.

However you seemed to have missed how us Brits think with such a historical figure as Henry the Eighth creating Protestants so he could get around the whole marriage problem that the Catholics kicked a stink up over. I think it pretty much proved that even he thought religion was a farce.

 

[SnakeLord]

Can I just quickly apologise for the error on my former post. I stated 'English' christianity statistics, when it should have said 'Scottish. Soz, I was looking at the Scotland census, (I only noticed when it said 'church of scotland' as the highest amount)

its always mixed!if you are a christian it is intrinsic in your decision making and judgement.tony blair said he thought it was morally justified to invade iraq,who's morals?the catholic church

Hmm... I thought there was justification to invade Iraq, (well, to remove the nasty person who was in power). I also wouldn't generally trust a country like Iraq with womd. What has the catholic church got to do with any of that?

I would call it a lot of fucking England. Most, would you say? Of any ONE particular group? Hmmmm?

Unfortunately as explained earlier I made a slight error. I'll have to try finding English religiosity statistics again. Scotland and Ireland are typically vastly more religious than English people to begin with, but to answer your question the highest was church of Scotland, and then roman catholic.

We should also take into account those that would state themselves as the religion seen on their birth certificate, but do not in any way practice that religion or even believe in a god.

I disagree.

While that's nice, the key to a good discussion is if you would explain why/how. What say do they have, (in your opinion), on the running of this country?

Bullshit!

Again it would be nice if you could explain why/how you think it's 'bullshit'.

Reaaaallllly?!?!?!

Pretty much yes.

Some 47% of them. Name a larger group?! Hmmm?!

Sunday shoppers.

In England millions upon millions of people play the lottery every weekend. It's a vast amount of the English population and yet you wouldn't say the National Lottery runs the country.

 

[Cottontop3000]

If the UK is so filled with Christians, How comes I don't know any?

Alright, seriously. Maybe because you don't want to know them? Maybe because you grew up with them and disowned them. Maybe because you never "really" knew them? Maybe, maybe, maybe. Why don't you know any? You should know better than any?

Most of the people I know either suggest there is no god or have some other belief system. (Usually involving Crystals etc )

I thought I knew you. You being serious?

Of course Britain has a Christian history, however if you are going to start pointing fingers note the religion got here because of the Romans, who had in turn had taken it from some dodgy cult group.

Alright. I'm with you.

However you seemed to have missed how us Brits think with such a historical figure as Henry the Eighth creating Protestants so he could get around the whole marriage problem that the Catholics kicked a stink up over. I think it pretty much proved that even he thought religion was a farce.

Sure. Kicked up quite a stink, huh? What about our own Georgy Peorgy? You'd have thought he thought the bible was bogus too. What with owning slaves and all. "Never could tell a lie." Well, good for him. Glad we know he owned slaves. What does that say about him, and us, here in the US? Shit, it was this same "majority" that put bush into the white house. The white house. the very name of it now conjures up notions of "putrid" and "be-fouled."

Christians. My ass.

 

[Cottontop3000]

Can I just quickly apologise for the error on my former post. I stated 'English' christianity statistics, when it should have said 'Scottish. Soz, I was looking at the Scotland census, (I only noticed when it said 'church of scotland' as the highest amount)

What, by chance, would be the 'English' stats? Got them handy?

Hmm... I thought there was justification to invade Iraq, (well, to remove the nasty person who was in power). I also wouldn't generally trust a country like Iraq with womd. What has the catholic church got to do with any of that?

Just a sec. You're "justification" for the invasion of Iraq, for the second time, was "to remove the nasty person who was in power?" That was your justification for invading Iraq with the yanks? Or what you thought the justification was?

Unfortunately as explained earlier I made a slight error. I'll have to try finding English religiosity statistics again. Scotland and Ireland are typically vastly more religious than English people to begin with, but to answer your question the highest was church of Scotland, and then roman catholic.

So what were the actual stats for England?

church of Scotland: 27%
roman catholic: 19%

This is a guess.

We should also take into account those that would state themselves as the religion seen on their birth certificate, but do not in any way practice that religion or even believe in a god.

Which way do they vote? Give me stats on that. Are they kept? Can you get them? Stats that show birth certificate religious claim/voting pattern?

While that's nice, the key to a good discussion is if you would explain why/how. What say do they have, (in your opinion), on the running of this country?

I really would like to know the stats for England, and the U.S., if you know where to get them.

Some 47% of them. Name a larger group?! Hmmm?!

Sunday shoppers.

What are the numbers for England? Best moderate guesstimate?

In England millions upon millions of people play the lottery every weekend. It's a vast amount of the English population and yet you wouldn't say the National Lottery runs the country.

Depends.

 

[Pi-Sudoku]

P.S. How can you say that Britain is not dominated by christians?!

In My village the local church has a regular congregation of 3 (and that includes the organ player)

 

[Bells]

Yeah. Sure. If my kid were fucking up, "I'd be more concerned about my reputation than the welfare of my kid." Where is the disconnect there?!

Sadly, most parents in a position of power would probably be more concerned about their reputation than the child's welfare. After all, everyone would judge them as being a bad parent because what good parent has a child who is picked up by the police, lolling around on the ground at a street corner while pissed as a fart? When this happened, he wasn't criticised as being selfish and only worried about his reputation. I think he actually received quite a bit of pity from most in the British public, because it showed that he was not perfect and that his kid also stuffs up like other people's kids. It made him look common. He reacted like most parents would have... do everything within one's power to get the kid out of prison without a criminal record or charges being pressed. He may have done it to save his reputation, but at least his kid does not have a permanent criminal record.

Pragmatic, isn't he? Not too "christian." Can't be "too" christian.

When you compare him to Bush, he's almost an atheist.

He may be a Catholic or whatever religion he is, but I don't see him pushing his religious agenda onto the populace, do you?

Sure. But which 47% of the country is Blair appealing to when he constructs his lies? Ever asked yourself what it would take for you to become Prime Minister? Or President? Think they haven't asked themselves that before?

Do you think he constructs his lies to target Christians specifically? The people he appeals to for his campaigns are the idiots that will listen. His supporters aren't all Christian. On the contrary, I'd think that the Christian conservative would vote for the opposition. Lets not forget, there are also many Muslims screaming out for the extradition of other Muslims who preach hate, because when a Muslim extremist does something wrong, the moderate Muslim also pays the price. Are you calling those moderate Muslims Christians as well?

As many have pointed out in this thread, the national religion in the UK is Football. Most would go to a football match than to Church on a Sunday morning.

 

[kenworth]

Hmm... I thought there was justification to invade Iraq, (well, to remove the nasty person who was in power). I also wouldn't generally trust a country like Iraq with womd. What has the catholic church got to do with any of that?

he mentioned it

 

[Silas]

No, at it's core, humanity is a violent, cruel, venal, destructive, horrible creature.

Thats all true on a societal level, but not individual.

Humans are more capable of gutless treachery and heartless slaughter than religious tolerance, usually. This level of tolerance and anti-hatred, proposed in that law, is a progressive step. You, lapdog, would be wise to get with the modern world.

There is little need for religious tolerance. We need to love other faiths instead, and tell them lovingly that they are wrong.

Lawdog, as lovingly as I can, I tell you that you are wrong.

If they do not try to change they should be expelled, but without unneccesary bloodshed.

Erm, expelled? Expelled from the country? I think that will leave the United States a nation of 40 million Catholics, with the other 200-odd million dispersed all over the world. Downside is, we Brits would be getting the Puritans back. That's before we expel almost everybody and leave Britain back at its pagan Celtic roots!

"Religious Tolerance" is a novel and violent doctrine, because it lies and says that its ok for them to believe whatever they want, but thats is a lie, since its not ok for them to kill innocents. It is not. BUT YET THIS IS WHAT ISLAM DEMANDS: JIHAD. KILL FOR GOD, even INNOCENT CIVILIANS. Britain is LIEING TO ITS MUSLIMS, its pretending that such a doctrine does not exist.

Actually, logically it's either the islamist hatred-mongers who are lying to their flock (the ones they turn into suicide bombers) or the leaders of mainstream Islam who have lied to the British Media and the Government.

On the other hand, perhaps you personally recommend Joshua 10: xxii-xliii to your flock in order to have them kill Muslims, Atheists and other Non-Believers.

Religion is such an important thing, whether you agree with it or not, it defines cultures, persons, etc. Therefore you cannot have two opposed religions in the same area.

My god you really are a segregationist, aren't you? Religious tolerance has to come along hand in hand with anti-racism.

There is no need to kill anyone, just tell them that they need to leave.

The naivety displayed here is absolutely extraordinary. The fact that many Muslim families in Britian have been here for decades might cause a bit of a fracas when they were asked to "leave".

Rather more importantly, you are now espousing racist and nationalistic policies that have not been deemed acceptable in what I will term "polite society" for over fifty years, and are fundamentally what we fought the last War against.

There is one exception, Christianity should be tolerated and promoted by states, since it is the best and highest faith, conducive to human health and happiness and peace, truest in its doctrines, ablest to guide mankind with its hierarchies, universal in its adaptability to any peoples, offering the holiest of rites, singular in its assemblies, zealous in the spreading of God's promises.

Again, as lovingly as I can, you are completely and utterly wrong.

Very evil religions, like Witchcraft, have never been tolerated, even by pagans, nor have very Good ones, like Catholicism. History bears this truth out: In 17th England and the American Colonies neither of the above examples were tolerated.

Men hate both the very evil and very good.

The Church tried to save certain people from unjustly executing (and thus sinning) when certain rulers desired to burn the evil-working witches, so the Inquisition was established to find out if the witches were really guilty. The Church was the originator of not destroying people for being involved in false religion. Yet this doctrine has been twisted into "Religious Tolerance"

I'm sorry, Lawdog, you're bemoaning the lack of toleration given to Catholics and other sects, and yet your entire post promotes such lack of toleration.

I understand if non-Muslims have a bit of a downer on Muslims at the moment, but your viewpoint is utterly sectarian, hatred-inspired and fundamentally evil. Tolerance of all viewpoints is essential if we are to retain our democratic freedoms. And that is why I am against the Religious Hatred act, because no Religion should be above criticism. And no amount of hatred-filled rabble-rousing should be greeted with expulsion, because ultimately it sets a precedent for any kind of dissension.

 

[SnakeLord]

What, by chance, would be the 'English' stats? Got them handy?

Alas I do not, although I am attempting to find them.

Just a sec. You're "justification" for the invasion of Iraq, for the second time, was "to remove the nasty person who was in power?" That was your justification for invading Iraq with the yanks? Or what you thought the justification was?

'But when a long train of abuses and usurpations pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty to throw off such government and to provide new guards for their future security'.

If Blair started dropping chemical weapons on us English folk I would damn well do my best to get him out of power, and I would certainly expect other friendly countries to come help us get rid of him.

They might have done it for a whole load of wrong reasons with rather worthless excuses, but I consider it being done as fully justified overall. Further to which I'm not really one to agree that a country should have to gain permission to go to war.

So what were the actual stats for England?

I'm working on it.

Which way do they vote? Give me stats on that.

I'll have to do some research - although in this election Blair got 36%? or thereabouts.

Are they kept? Can you get them?

I'm sure they are, it's just a case of finding them.

Stats that show birth certificate religious claim/voting pattern?

They wouldn't go via birth certificates but what someone actually stated their religion as being on the consensus. While it would generally be that which is on their birth certificate, we have to take into account those that have changed religion/have no religious belief.

I'll see if I can find some statistics regarding religion/voting, but it wont be easy.

I really would like to know the stats for England, and the U.S., if you know where to get them.

Watch this space.

What are the numbers for England? Best moderate guesstimate?

More than are in church on a Sunday.

 

[Cottontop3000]

Alas I do not, although I am attempting to find them.

If I have to wait much longer, I will think that you don't really care.

 

[Hapsburg]

we Brits would be getting the Puritans back.

Ugh! Just the thought of those wackos returning makes a chill run up my spine.

Britain back at its pagan Celtic roots!

I'd like that actually. They were a bit less violent towards each other in that era.

 

[sniffy]

If you want statistics on the ethnic and religious makeup of Britain try typing UK national census into a search engine or even UK national statistics. Takes a few seconds.

Historically the British Isles have been 'ruled' by despots, charlatans, murderers and rarely wise and visionary leaders. All, bar one Jew I think, since the Romans have been Christian of one form or another and only in ther last few hundred years has there been an elected parliament.

A politician will say almost anything to get elected! George knows spouting about Christianity in America almost guarantees a landslide (it worked didn't it?). In Britain if a politician tried to get elected on a Christian ticket the majority of voters would run a mile! Interestingly in the most recent election in Britain most voters did 'run a mile'. Tony Blair hung on by the skin of his teeth partly because the opposing parties offered a poor alternative and partly because the system here can deliver a victory based on a relatively small number of majority votes. Blair can back on a much reduced majority.

Rather than worry so much about what religion our leaders espouse we might be better examining the capitalist democratic system which is maintained only by the exploitation of the world's finite human and physical resources. And please don't starting ranting on about me being a communist or some other scapegoat label you all seem to enjoy banding about.

 

[Cottontop3000]

If you want statistics on the ethnic and religious makeup of Britain try typing UK national census into a search engine or even UK national statistics. Takes a few seconds.

Takes only a few seconds? Hmm. Imagine that. What's up Snakelord?

 

[KennyJC]

I live in Scotland and honestly don't think I know a single person who is religious or at least talks about being religious.

 

[audible]

can I move there, I've scottish ancestry.

 

[Cottontop3000]

can I move there, I've scottish ancestry.

moi aussi

 

[SnakeLord]

Takes only a few seconds? Hmm. Imagine that. What's up Snakelord?

General all-round laziness.

 

[Cottontop3000]

General all-round laziness.

yeah, I know the feeling. i don't blame you.

 

[Chatha]

In Responce to British Proposals to Ban Incitement to religious haterd i would like to voice my Opinion on the matter:

I HATE RELIGION

I think that religion has never helped anyone and has only ever prevented society from living in a civilized manner, it has started campaigns of racism and fascism and was caused wars costing thousands of lives, i would be saddened if Mr Blair at No10 stopped me from hating religion, it is my right

You couldn't be any more wrong about this in my opinion. Religion itelf is good and has given people hope, love, pride, and enlightenment. Its the politicalization and imperialization of people in the name of religion that is bad. Can you name anything on earth that has not been molded and embelished? There you are. These days you may not fear a holy doctrine but back then it sure kept order in the society as it still does to some extent.

 

[Cottontop3000]

You couldn't be any more wrong about this in my opinion. Religion itelf is good and has given people hope, love, pride, and enlightenment. Its the politicalization and imperialization of people in the name of religion that is bad. Can you name anything on earth that has not been molded and embelished? There you are. These days you may not fear a holy doctrine but back then it sure kept order in the society as it still does to some extent.

What...ever! *Flicks hair*