Bloody Catholics

[Avatar]

Originally posted by (Q)

With all the tens of thousands of people attending the week long "Popestock," culminating in a Sunday mass that would rival "Woodstock," was there not one single atheist protesting any of this ? Was there not a group of non-believers waving signs and chanting "Pontiff Perversion" or "God is Dead" or "Long Live Evolution ?"

And did not the media, while covering this event, interview any atheists amongst the throngs of interviewees to get an oppossing point of view or were they biased towards the Catholics ? Was there any mention whatsoever of a negative impact to the Popes visit regarding the future of our youth ?

You're right. But N America (continent) is one big christian colony. What did you expect

And if you are so worried about the Pope- he doesn't bite. Was in Latvia in 1993. I wasn't molested then or tortured till I accepted christianity. Still a good atheist Besides , atheists are very hard to convert They'll burn in hell

 

[lotuseatsvipers]

Tyler theres a lot of stupid people in the world, deal with it and don't be a jackass by posting stupid threads about your ignorant prejudices.

 

[Tyler]

"Tyler theres a lot of stupid people in the world, deal with it and don't be a jackass by posting stupid threads about your ignorant prejudices."

Prejudice? Hell yes. Ignorant? Hell no. I know my intense dislike of catholics is completely irrational. I know that all catholics are not idiots. I am not the stupidest person alive. However, in my life I have yet to meet a truly intelligent and likable catholic. And with 350,000 of them here and I can't stand one of them, I hate these people more than I hate god himself. However, I will not act rude or think lowly of any Catholic I meet as a human being. I will just, by instinct, assume they are not intelligent.


Q, nope, of course not. Atheists aren't pathetic enough to need to gather in large groups and give praise to themselves and their beliefs.

 

[lotuseatsvipers]

Q, nope, of course not. Atheists aren't pathetic enough to need to gather in large groups and give praise to themselves and their beliefs.

They aren't by necessity Athiests(but im sure some of them are), but I see plenty of people crying and drooling all over moviestars bands, etc. That isn't religious, but it is just as stupid.

My 19ish years I cared about Christianity, I have come to the conclusion that Catholics are on the average the most intelligent and rational of the whole lot. Its all perspective and you need to remember that, where you are at and who you meet. Personally all my experiences with southern Baptists has left a horrible taste in my mouth, but then I meet someone who says they aren't so bad.

Don't base your assumptions of such an ENORMOUS group of people on a silly ogling crowd. I have made the same mistake, so its all good.

 

[Raithere]

Originally posted by Tyler
They all start begging us and yelling at us and after 10 seconds or so (while we're still walking) they go "BUT WE'RE AMERICANS!! YAAAAAAAY AMERICA!!! Come on!!!!! You gotta sign it!!!! We're Americans!"

Sounds like you got hit with a double-whammy, American Catholic Tourists. Seriously, I hate to admit it since I'm an American but half (or more) of the problem there is that they were Americans.

I had the opportunity to see the Catacombs outside of Rome years back. It's simply a mind-boggling experience. Anyway, directly in front of us was an American couple bitching about absolutely everything, like they couldn't believe it was so dark and dirty (yes they actually said that), huffing about the lack of amenities in the museum above as if it should have been a 4 star resturant, and how long the tour was taking. My brother and I were seriously discussing adding them to one of the crypts, which seem to quell their dissatisfaction.

I've had the good fortune to travel somewhat extensively and one thing remains constant. American Tourists are assholes. They have no respect for any other culture, walk around like they own or are owed everything, and usually just bitch about how the place is not as nice as "home". Personally, I think with that attitude they should stay there and have a fucking barbeque in the back lawn.

Of course, when I travel, I say I'm from Canada.

~Raithere

 

[You Killed Jesus]

A friend of mine is over at world youth day, and is coming back on friday.

Funny thing is, he's not really a beleiver or anything. He's just going for the trip to Toronto!

 

[Tiassa]

Is it just me, or ...

Is it just me or do the Catholics described in the topic post sound an awful lot like football° fans?

Notes:

• Football: For citizens of the US, I'm referring to soccer.

thanx,
Tiassa

 

[Eman Resu]

Originally posted by Avatar


You're right. But N America (continent) is one big christian colony. What did you expect

What the hell, Jack? America is a "Christian" colony? Last time I looked we're catering to every freakin' religion on this planet! I live next to the "Muslim" capital of America!

Read the news and look for these nim-rods trying to take "God" (however you define it) out of an ages-old school pledge of allegiance.

If anything the Capitalism concept "perfected" here should be an indication that where there is money there is definitely NO room for religion - unless some religion mandates you unload yous hard-earned and rare cash to the good ole' church!

 

[EvelinaAnville]

Originally posted by Eman Resu



Read the news and look for these nim-rods trying to take "God" (however you define it) out of an ages-old school pledge of allegiance.

I just had to comment. The addition of the prayer element to the pledge of allegiance is not as simple an issue as Eman Resu (and many others) seem(s) to think. It is not "ages-old." Following is an excerpt from an article on the original pledge of allegiance written by Francis Bellamy in 1892. His original did not contain the words "under God." I saw a documentary once (I cannot remember where--bad scholarship, I know ) that showed how people protested the addition of the phrase because they felt that forced prayer (forced conversion) went against what Christ taught.

In 1954, Congress after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus, added the words, 'under God,' to the Pledge. The Pledge was now both a patriotic oath and a public prayer.

Bellamy's granddaughter said he also would have resented this second change. He had been pressured into leaving his church in 1891 because of his socialist sermons. In his retirement in Florida, he stopped attending church because he disliked the racial bigotry he found there.

http://www.vineyard.net/vineyard/history/pledge.htm

There's those "bloody catholics" again (the Knights of Columbus)! Or are they templars?

I also have heard that the addition was made to differentiate the "good," "Christian" America from the "bad," "atheist" Soviet Union. This is what Eisenhower said about the addition "In this way we are reaffirming the transcendence of religious faith in America's heritage and future; in this way we shall constantly strengthen those spiritual weapons which forever will be our country's most powerful resource in peace and war." I am sure that the irony of Bellamy being a socialist would have been lost on Eisenhower as it would be lost on many people today (including our wonderful president-non-elect).



Tyler, by the way, I am intelligent (or so I believe ), adult- converted (gasp!), catholic. Consider yourself met . I believe many of the things that you say about the church are true (need women priests, priests need to marry, etc), but it is the closest thing to a balanced (intellectual with the emotional) christianity I have come across. That balance is something I have (reluctantly) discovered I need because I tend too much to the intellectual and neglect the emotional. Also, I think my perhaps naïve and misguided notion was that the church needs heretics like me.

 

[ubermich]

this is pretty fucking ludicrous....

tyler says:

Prejudice? Hell yes. Ignorant? Hell no. I know my intense dislike of catholics is completely irrational. I know that all catholics are not idiots. I am not the stupidest person alive. However, in my life I have yet to meet a truly intelligent and likable catholic. And with 350,000 of them here and I can't stand one of them, I hate these people more than I hate god himself. However, I will not act rude or think lowly of any Catholic I meet as a human being. I will just, by instinct, assume they are not intelligent.

*rofl. oh, the irony of it all. as an american catholic (by birth, not by choice) i believe the same thing....except about canadians.....lol, though with less intensity, i think, than do you about catholics, tyler.

and yes...i agree with everyone who accurately points out that tyler's criticisms are specific to the TYPES of catholics that are either
1) american
or
2) pope groupies.

i think you should realize this, tyler...because to demonize the entirety of the church because of a few people you have met....is to justify institutionalized racism....or sexism....or any other bad -ism, out there. this is the same type of thinking. if i see a lazy, stupid black person who commits crime, i cant just inductively conclude that all black people are stupid drugdealers....yet many people do....

or people see me, and think i am a typical asian person just because im good at thinking or whatever....when i am completely fucking different....because i construct my identity....i am not a slave to it...or to my heritage...though i do cherish it....

i know, to a certain extent, your being playful and facetious....hell, you admit that you are being irrational. but how about you fucking stop? otherwise, you just might convince me to start thinking like you do, and id have to start stereotyping and hating the brainless teenage white males that i go to high school with, id have to start fueling my own prejudice.......

oh, and btw, i think i have the MOST respect for catholics out of all christian sects....look at the jesuits...the only christians i know of who have made a mission of reconciling faith with reason, for five hundred years. defenders of the church during the protestant reformation....theyve done so much. look at nietszche....he condemned the church but even he, could not bring himself to condemnt the jesuits. just proves that no institution is absolutely good or bad, despicable or respectable....

 

[Tyler]

First off - haven't seen you post in a while uber, welcome!


"rofl. oh, the irony of it all. as an american catholic (by birth, not by choice) i believe the same thing....except about canadians.....lol, though with less intensity, i think, than do you about catholics, tyler."

Canucks? Meh, whatever you say.


"and yes...i agree with everyone who accurately points out that tyler's criticisms are specific to the TYPES of catholics that are either
1) american
or
2) pope groupies"

Oh definetly. And like I said, my prejudice, as with any prejudice, is remarkably irrational. And from an intellectual standpoint I know it and so I don't acknowledge it. But I'd be lieing if I said that deep down I don't instantly assume a god-believing bible-thumping pope-worshiping (which is contradictory in itself) catholics that I meet are stupid.


"i think you should realize this, tyler...because to demonize the entirety of the church because of a few people you have met....is to justify institutionalized racism....or sexism....or any other bad -ism, out there. this is the same type of thinking. if i see a lazy, stupid black person who commits crime, i cant just inductively conclude that all black people are stupid drugdealers....yet many people do...."

The catholic church I demonize for an entirely different reason. Bible states to hold no idols and worship no one but god/christ. Then they fully support and even encourage catholics to bloody well worship the pope. Like you said; pope groupies.


"I know, to a certain extent, your being playful and facetious....hell, you admit that you are being irrational. but how about you fucking stop? otherwise, you just might convince me to start thinking like you do, and id have to start stereotyping and hating the brainless teenage white males that i go to high school with, id have to start fueling my own prejudice......."

What's the problem with hating brainless male high schoolers?


"oh, and btw, i think i have the MOST respect for catholics out of all christian sects....look at the jesuits...the only christians i know of who have made a mission of reconciling faith with reason, for five hundred years. defenders of the church during the protestant reformation....theyve done so much. look at nietszche....he condemned the church but even he, could not bring himself to condemnt the jesuits. just proves that no institution is absolutely good or bad, despicable or respectable...."

It's really only the pilgrams that I'm bashing here. Besides the fact that they contradict their own religion, tell our atheists that they're going to burn in hell, illegally harrass women going into abortion clinics while they're guests in our city, yell and scream at all hours of the night, act like little kids (actually, the acting like little kids part seems reserved for the yanks. The french and poles who make up the majority of the rest that I've met have been a little more mature) and dirty up our city; they take up space on our subways and buses!!!!!!

 

[lotuseatsvipers]

The catholic church I demonize for an entirely different reason. Bible states to hold no idols and worship no one but god/christ. Then they fully support and even encourage catholics to bloody well worship the pope. Like you said; pope groupies.

Give me a break Tyler, do you read the relgion folder very often. Imagine the list of religious contradictions that could be created for any Christian sect (some so glaring in my mind as to completely dispel any remnants of rational thought that I believed some of these Christians might have held), getting overwhelmed by emotion because a person comes in close contact with what they see as their ruler and spiritual leader is hardly a catholic thing alone.
I also feel it is a stretch to say that they are holding him up as an idol - yes a few of them may actual harbor feelings of worship but so what, people are still people after all (besides, take a gander at some of the other sects, such as assembly of god, who seem to be absolutely overwhelmed with money - IDOL, the list of common Christian Idols could go on for a while I'm sure).

You are being incredibly irrational, and the flames aren't nearly forthwright enough. I view your post as no better than saying I am disgusted by black people...or gay people....or people named Tyler.

And on top of all this, it seems to be fairly agreed upon (at least in this thread) that Catholics are the MOST rational, and attempt to use logic the most, of any other Christian sect (there are others, but Catholics are high up on the ladder at any rate).

Remember that Priest from australia? whatever happened to that guy, I seemed to become a member right after he stopped posting....anyways.

Get your head out of your ass tyler

 

[Xev]

It's really only the pilgrams that I'm bashing here. Besides the fact that they contradict their own religion, tell our atheists that they're going to burn in hell, illegally harrass women going into abortion clinics while they're guests in our city, yell and scream at all hours of the night, act like little kids (actually, the acting like little kids part seems reserved for the yanks. The french and poles who make up the majority of the rest that I've met have been a little more mature) and dirty up our city; they take up space on our subways and buses!!!!!!

And how much revenue is your city raking in on hotels? How many bus drivers are sending their kids to college with the overtime?

And how does telling somone that they will burn in hell either contridict Christianity or pose a problem?

Jesus condemmned whole cities to hell. And so what if they do? What, afraid they might be right?

Do you think that I care when Tony1 tells me I'm going to burn in a lake of fire for eternity? Fuck no. Do you think he cares when I tell him that Cthulhu will eat him? I highly doubt it.

Get some fucking balls. Or face the tickling wrath of the Invisible Pink Unicorn.

Oh, and BTW, your criticism of the "Pope groupies" as idolaters is tenuous at best. Especially considering that Jesus himself established what would become the Papacy (although he of course did not see where the development of its power would lead).

ubermich:

I think you start too late when you mention the Jesuits. Reconciling faith and reason is a very old Catholic tradition. Goes back to even before Aquinas.

The Jesuits didn't start till, lesse, Loyola published "Spiritual Excersizes" in 1548.

Ironic, he was brought before the Inquisition a few times. I think they even tried to dissolve the Jesuits once.

Anyhow, the Catholic tradition has a long and quite illustrious history of reconciling faith and reason, as well as protecting some of the great scholors of the middle ages. Ockham was a Francescan.

The Church's role in preserving a bit of the light of the classical philosophers by copying and preserving their works is often overlooked. The Dominicans played a large role in this.

lotus:

Remember that Priest from australia? whatever happened to that guy, I seemed to become a member right after he stopped posting....anyways.

What, Sir Loone? He was American.

I miss that guy.

Avatar:

Actually, we are officially NOT a Christian nation.

As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion,-as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen,-and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

Article 11 of the Tripoli treaty

 

[lotuseatsvipers]

I miss that guy.

I agree, lets beat down his door and tie him to his computer.

And I think our state has a de facto religion...It's aparent to me at any rate, just look how much power the damn GOP GOD people have. ugh! (obviously theres more to it than that, but I don't really remember the argument )

As for Catholics, my dad (a catholic) tried very hard to 'beat' logic into me when I was young and running around with my fundie friends. I just thought he didn't have enough faith...guess I wasn't different than most other teenagers (always thinking I was right and my parents didn't understand! oh well)

 

[Xev]

lotus:

I agree, lets beat down his door and tie him to his computer.

At least he is not functionally part of his computer.

*Hugs 790*

I love my Thinkpad, I love my Thinkpad.

And I think our religion is a de facto religion...It's aparent to me at any rate, just look how much power the damn GOP GOD people have. ugh!

True, but we're officially non-religious.

 

[Tyler]

"Give me a break Tyler, do you read the relgion folder very often. Imagine the list of religious contradictions that could be created for any Christian sect (some so glaring in my mind as to completely dispel any remnants of rational thought that I believed some of these Christians might have held), getting overwhelmed by emotion because a person comes in close contact with what they see as their ruler and spiritual leader is hardly a catholic thing alone.
I also feel it is a stretch to say that they are holding him up as an idol - yes a few of them may actual harbor feelings of worship but so what, people are still people after all (besides, take a gander at some of the other sects, such as assembly of god, who seem to be absolutely overwhelmed with money - IDOL, the list of common Christian Idols could go on for a while I'm sure)."

Definetly. Plenty of religious contradictions. Oh, and it's not a 'few' of them worshipping him. If you saw the news here you would see every woman and a lot of men within range of the pope that were crying. When you cry from being so excited to see someone, you are a groupie.


"You are being incredibly irrational, and the flames aren't nearly forthwright enough. I view your post as no better than saying I am disgusted by black people...or gay people....or people named Tyler."

You know what, come to think of it, I've never met a Tyler that wasn't an ass. That's interesting.



Xev;

"And how much revenue is your city raking in on hotels? How many bus drivers are sending their kids to college with the overtime?"

All in total? Zero. They stayed at schools. All the junior/high schools were opened for them to stay at. As long as they cleaned themselves. Our buses didn't run any later.


"And how does telling somone that they will burn in hell either contridict Christianity or pose a problem?"

Neither, it's just annoying. And pathetic.


"Do you think that I care when Tony1 tells me I'm going to burn in a lake of fire for eternity? Fuck no. Do you think he cares when I tell him that Cthulhu will eat him? I highly doubt it"

Haha. It doesn't offend me, or many people here. It just looks sad and pathetic. Actually, near the end some woman walked up to a security gaurd and asked to be let into a restricted area to get a better look at the pope. He said 'nope, restricted'. She said (incredibly angry at him and looking at him like he was the lowest form of human life) 'fine, you'll burn in hell.' He looked back and nodded saying 'see ya' there'. That was just funny!


"Oh, and BTW, your criticism of the "Pope groupies" as idolaters is tenuous at best. Especially considering that Jesus himself established what would become the Papacy (although he of course did not see where the development of its power would lead)."

People who cry or come close to/faint when they see a man are groupies of him. That's disturbing.

 

[Xev]

Tyler:

They stayed at schools. All the junior/high schools were opened for them to stay at. As long as they cleaned themselves. Our buses didn't run any later.

If your city didn't turn a profit on the visit, you should kick whatever morons you have in office out of office next election.

Neither, it's just annoying. And pathetic.

So? I can't wear a low cut shirt and hold a semi-intelligent conversation with a man without him becoming monosyllabic while staring at my breasts.

Annoying....pathetic......yet you don't see me ranting about how pathetic your gender is.

Grow up.

People who cry or come close to/faint when they see a man are groupies of him. That's disturbing.

I didn't say they weren't groupies, I said they weren't idolators.

Whose disturbing? I don't give a rat's arse if people faint at the sight of the Pope. He is not my idea of sexy, but to each his own.

 

[Tyler]

"If your city didn't turn a profit on the visit, you should kick whatever morons you have in office out of office next election."

Nah, I really don't care about that. As far as I'm concerned we did a good thing on that. I'm sure they brought in money on souvenirs and such anyway, and it's just being considerate to let them stay at schools (and I do believe they cleaned them themselves). But yes, we do have a moron as mayor. Definetly. Everyone hates him.


"So? I can't wear a low cut shirt and hold a semi-intelligent conversation with a man without him becoming monosyllabic while staring at my breasts.

Annoying....pathetic......yet you don't see me ranting about how pathetic your gender is."

Deal with 300,000+ of them coming into your city and staring at every woman's breasts and trying to push their beliefs on you.


"I didn't say they weren't groupies, I said they weren't idolators"

What does it mean to be an idolator?
Just because I'm not entirely sure that I'm right (now that you bring it up); "The reverent love and devotion accorded a deity, an idol, or a sacred object." -- that's worship

The pope is an idol and the amount of love, devotion, worship and praise they place on this man is beyond anything I have ever seen by so much it shocks me.

 

[Nebula]

tyler

You're gripes sound more directed at stupid/ignorant/rude people in general. While I don't partiularly favor Catholics, I don't think that pant signing/protesting are in the Catholic Doctrine. I think you should be complaing more at the fact that the singers were French Nationalists more than they were Catholic...hee hee .

 

[Xev]

Tyler:

Nah, I really don't care about that.

You, ah, cared enough to start a thread.....

Deal with 300,000+ of them coming into your city and staring at every woman's breasts and trying to push their beliefs on you.

What, Tyler, have they brought out the wheel and the rack? Are they burning philosophers now? Are they going to start forcibly baptizing Jews next?

They are maybe being nuisances trying to convert people.

Deal with it.

What does it mean to be an idolator?
Just because I'm not entirely sure that I'm right (now that you bring it up); "The reverent love and devotion accorded a deity, an idol, or a sacred object." -- that's worship

Not in the OT sense.

The pope is an idol and the amount of love, devotion, worship and praise they place on this man is beyond anything I have ever seen by so much it shocks me.

This is assertion, it is not evidence of anything but your own provinciality.