wrmgrl, I would assume that Dudeyhed is in high school. The basics of immunology aren't usually taught until Uni at some point or another, so I don't think he (I'm assuming it's a he) has had the benefit of that experience. He will learn eventually, but for now we have to try to explain things using language that all people, including ones without a background in biology, can understand. This isn't a personal attack, as you are obviously very intelligent, but even myself as an undergrad have a hard time understanding your posts fully at times.
Blood?!?!?!
- Thread starter Dudeyhed
- Start date
lol!
I hehe, I was saying 'the tan function' as in Tangent, maths... hehe
sorry, guess I shouldn't have put that in coz it might have been a bit hard to get... The thread was going on a 'tangent' to the topic... off course. i was just amusing myself over that. Ok, I promise never to try and be cleverly funny again... but I may try to be ordinarily funny.
Yes, I should read up on that, since my exam which is in two weeks (or was that three, i think i should look that up too!).
But I do recall something about antibodies prompting apoptosis (see, I know big bio words!
, even if that isn't what actually happens, I know big bio words!) on the victim cell.Yep, I'm in high school and I'm a guy too. Good assuming Idle Mind.
Yep, simple terms are always good.
Yep yep.
Re: personal
that's what I thought too...not anymore though
that's what I thought too...not anymore though
Ah, I get it, tangent, totatlly different then what I was thinkingOriginally posted by Dudeyhed
lol!
I hehe, I was saying 'the tan function' as in Tangent, maths... hehe
sorry, guess I shouldn't have put that in coz it might have been a bit hard to get... The thread was going on a 'tangent' to the topic... off course. i was just amusing myself over that. Ok, I promise never to try and be cleverly funny again... but I may try to be ordinarily funny.
But I do recall something about antibodies prompting apoptosis (see, I know big bio words!
Apoptosis is a good word, the pronuncation of which is debated among scientists, and if you don't say it properly you'll get nasty looks at conferences.
As for antibodies causing apoptosis, not exactly. In terms of bacteria, if an antibody recognizes the bacteria it binds to it, and stays stuck on the bacteria's surface. Then other host cells (such as macrophages) come along that recognize the antibodies and a couple things can happen, the host cell will engulf the antibody-covered bacteria, which usually results in killing the bacteria, or the host cell will release proteins that punch holes in the membrane of the bacteria (or other types of cells such as the blood cells that this thread is based on). This will kill the bacteria/blood cell/cancer cell/virally infected cells. So you see by definition, it's not apoptosis, but cell death (also called necrosis) that is caused by antibodies. In apoptosis the cell goes through characteristic changes in morphology because it is killing itself.
The body does have ways of killing cells by apoptosis, but they don't involve antibodies. I don't think you can kill red blood cells by apoptosis, since they have no nucleus.
Re: Re: Re: personal
No...that i expected that there would be more scientists here. And stupidity is not exclusive to the ranks of scientists.
Originally posted by Dudeyhed
are you saying that we're all stupid?
No...that i expected that there would be more scientists here. And stupidity is not exclusive to the ranks of scientists.
Originally posted by Dudeyhed
So is apoptosis pronounced A-pop-to-sis or ap-op-to-sis? Or is it neither of the two?
Ah, do not worry, many a scientists is lost on this one. Actually since it's derived from latin, supposedly it should sound something like
a-pah-toe-sis (the second p is silent) some people say it more like aptoesis
Good question. They engulf the bacteria forming chambers around the bacteria, then other organelles (called lysosomes) from the macophage fuse with the chamber containing the bacteria. This lowers the pH in the chamber, and the bacteria is eventually killed. Some bacteria are tricky though and can either escape from the chamber or cause the cell not to let the lysosomes fuse. Then the bacteria can replicate happily inside the macrophage, protected (mostly) from the rest of the host's immune system. Eventually they escape the macrophage and go on to spread. Bacteria and viruses can do really cool things to escape the immune system.
a-pah-toe-sis it is then! I like that one best!
Lysosomes, refered to as 'suicide bags' in my text book.
ah, sorry, but does lowering the pH make the substance in the chamber more acidic or more basic? And is it the acidity/basicicity (?is that a word
?) that kills the cell?To backtrack a little. As has been said not everyone here is a scientist. IMO this is the strength of the forum, although I can imagine that for some scientists the discussions are pretty frustrating (as they are quite often for the non-scientists).
However non-scientists are not actually some left-over half of the race that were not given brains - and (wrmqrl) nothing excuses this kind arrogant nonsense:-
"It is our job as scientists to make sure people are educated. All the fear surrounding genetic engineering, stem cell research and the like comes from lack of information (and sometimes lack of rational thought). Scientists often either cannot be bothered or are not capable of educating the general public. This all leads to confusion, mistrust, and fear. "
However non-scientists are not actually some left-over half of the race that were not given brains - and (wrmqrl) nothing excuses this kind arrogant nonsense:-
"It is our job as scientists to make sure people are educated. All the fear surrounding genetic engineering, stem cell research and the like comes from lack of information (and sometimes lack of rational thought). Scientists often either cannot be bothered or are not capable of educating the general public. This all leads to confusion, mistrust, and fear. "
i don't know. It is quite an interesting statement from another perspective. This exactly what scientists started to say around 1870 until a bit past 1900. Scientists came out of their ivory tower and wanted to help society with their science, by education of the general public and by applying pure science for practical problems. It is nice to see this returning waves of thinking about science. I quite enjoy these statements. The last part of the statement (mistrust) is not typically from the turn of the 19th century. This attidue of mistrusting science probably started during the first world war and really took of with the atomic bomb during the second.
Sciforums can be enjoyed on many levels as you can see.
I'm not sure where my own opinions on science belong. It is difficult to analzye your self.
Originally posted by Dudeyhed
a-pah-toe-sis it is then! I like that one best!
Lysosomes, refered to as 'suicide bags' in my text book.
ah, sorry, but does lowering the pH make the substance in the chamber more acidic or more basic? And is it the acidity/basicicity (?is that a word
Lysosomes are definitely suicide bags. They are what is so dangerous about high fevers. When the temperature in your brain gets too high, they burst open and literally begin digesting your brain cells. Not a good thing.
About acids and bases. You probably know all this but I'll repeat it just to make this clear. pH scale is from 0-14, 0 is the most acidic, 7 is neutral, and 14 is the most basic. For this reason, if you "lower the pH" that is to make something more acidic whereas if you "raise the pH" you make something more basic. So even if you have a strong base, let's say pH 13, if you lower the pH you make it more acidic, even if you only lower it to pH 12, it is still more acidic then it was (though it is still a base), and the pH is therefore lower. It can be somewhat confusing if you're not used to it.
Biochemically, pH is a very important thing, it influences protein structure and function. So if you lower the pH surrounding the bacteria, you begin to destroy its proteins, punch holes in its cell walls, and other bad stuff.
I hope I have answered your questions in a way that is understandable. I didn't mean to be rude or arrogant, I was just trying to be thorough. It's hard when you don't know someone's background. Now that I do, I hope the answers are more appropriate.
I guess this all goes back to what happens when you "assume" (you make an a$$ of u and me, I know, it's not really that funny).
As for everyone else, I think you may mistake confidence in knowledge for arrogance. Trust me, I know that my knowledge is limited to science, and even within my field of science, which is why I read this forum, it interests me. And I never said that only scientists have brains. I have beaucoup respect for all kinds of other careers and interests. I would never post in, let's say, a computer forum, because I know my knowledge is extremely limited. If I did choose to post I would make sure I had all my facts straight and then try to ask questions. I would also expect that other people's knowledge will far exceed my own, and anticipate that I may have to do more research based on their responses.
I'm not trying to criticize anyone for their posting, I'm just talking about how I operate, and I'm sure not everyone is the same. I am still getting used to this forum. I am trying to be helpful. Sigh.
It certainly annoys me when I see people posting things like
"X is Y"
when clearly they should say "I think X might be Y".
This forces me to build a table of respect for each individual member.
On reflection, I think I'm going to put more references (as links) with any statements I make. With exception to this post of course (no names mentioned)
"X is Y"
when clearly they should say "I think X might be Y".
This forces me to build a table of respect for each individual member.
On reflection, I think I'm going to put more references (as links) with any statements I make. With exception to this post of course (no names mentioned)
Originally posted by Blue_UK
It certainly annoys me when I see people posting things like
"X is Y"
when clearly they should say "I think X might be Y".
This forces me to build a table of respect for each individual member.
On reflection, I think I'm going to put more references (as links) with any statements I make. With exception to this post of course (no names mentioned)
Well, since I am the only one in this thread who has been posting information that could be cited, I will take that as a comment about me.
I don't know what your table of respect will look like for me, but I could give you citations for every fact I posted above. I have the text books here for most of the info.
Check any college level immunology, microbiology and cell biology text books, and I am sure my info will be corroborated, since I was careful and looked things up before I posted to make sure my memory was not lacking.
I don't care what people in this forum think of me personally, but I would like to think they trust the information I provide, because I have worked hard to do so in a thorough and accurate manner.