black man shot in the back.
- Thread starter bhudmaash
- Start date
On lawbreaking
I can't count the number of felonious infractions of the law I've undertaken; part of it is that I can't remember any of them.
Funny, then, that the only time I ever got arrested I wasn't actually breaking the law.
Prozak ... I'll dig up the numbers later if you've never heard them before, but have you ever heard of the "Federal Crack Standard"?
It's a simple rule: If you are caught with five grams of crack cocaine, you are subject to a mandatory-minimum five-year prison sentence.
Please bear in mind that there is no chemical difference between crack and powder cocaine.
Please also bear in mind that the five-year mandatory minimum for powder cocaine kicks in at five-hundred grams.
In 1995, DoJ published that of approximately 2,300 sentences under the Federal Crack Standard, 11 (a raw number, not a percentage) were not black, and 3 (a raw number) were white.
In 1995, HHS published the statistic that 65% of the United States' crack smokers were white.
When we add into that racial profiling, procedural dichotomies among law enforcement apparently based on race, a disparity in quality of legal representation, and a marked tendency of juries to sentence blacks for a crime to longer terms than whites for the same crime, we start to see a major portion of that "Negro crime" is symptomatic of other problems.
:m:,
Tiassa
I can't count the number of felonious infractions of the law I've undertaken; part of it is that I can't remember any of them.
Funny, then, that the only time I ever got arrested I wasn't actually breaking the law.
Prozak ... I'll dig up the numbers later if you've never heard them before, but have you ever heard of the "Federal Crack Standard"?
It's a simple rule: If you are caught with five grams of crack cocaine, you are subject to a mandatory-minimum five-year prison sentence.
Please bear in mind that there is no chemical difference between crack and powder cocaine.
Please also bear in mind that the five-year mandatory minimum for powder cocaine kicks in at five-hundred grams.
In 1995, DoJ published that of approximately 2,300 sentences under the Federal Crack Standard, 11 (a raw number, not a percentage) were not black, and 3 (a raw number) were white.
In 1995, HHS published the statistic that 65% of the United States' crack smokers were white.
When we add into that racial profiling, procedural dichotomies among law enforcement apparently based on race, a disparity in quality of legal representation, and a marked tendency of juries to sentence blacks for a crime to longer terms than whites for the same crime, we start to see a major portion of that "Negro crime" is symptomatic of other problems.
:m:,
Tiassa
Who the fuck said that Diallo ran????? I bring Diallo up because I know a distant relative and because he is African. If the courts refuse to prosecute these freaking cops for shooting innocent young black, disproportionally arresting young black men for drug related crimes, beating up young black men, etc then we shall take the fucking law into our own hands.
41 shots for a man who supposedly had a gun--he had a fucking wallet--is a crime of passion, hate. How the hell do you keep shooting a guy till your clip empties when you receive no fire back---And u are supposedly protecting us???? And the fucking jury......God I fucking hate these cops! More whites use and sell drugs--weed, heroine, crack, etc and yet more blacks get arrested for these crimes. Why? because the fucking undercover cops are in the cities and not in the suburhan haven of the white youth. And wth the emergence of these three strikes and you are out crap....
How much of the black youth cannot VOTE now because of these Laws? How many jailed are under 25???? Well, blessed is he...
41 shots for a man who supposedly had a gun--he had a fucking wallet--is a crime of passion, hate. How the hell do you keep shooting a guy till your clip empties when you receive no fire back---And u are supposedly protecting us???? And the fucking jury......God I fucking hate these cops! More whites use and sell drugs--weed, heroine, crack, etc and yet more blacks get arrested for these crimes. Why? because the fucking undercover cops are in the cities and not in the suburhan haven of the white youth. And wth the emergence of these three strikes and you are out crap....
How much of the black youth cannot VOTE now because of these Laws? How many jailed are under 25???? Well, blessed is he...
I don't discriminate. Whether you're black, red, pink, yellow, white, male, or female, if you run away from the police when they, the legitimate law enforcement agency, tell you to stop, and you don't, you deserve to be shot. There is nothing more to discuss! You're wrong, the cops are right! You're doing the offense, not the cops! STOP PROTECTING THE DAMN CRIMINALS.
Re: On lawbreaking
A few questions:
1) Who is HHS, and where is this study of crack smokers?
2) Are these crack-related arrests for dealing or using?
3) Please provide proof of racial profiliing, procedural dichotomies "apparently based on race," disparity in quality of legal representation, as well as the jury bias you indicate.
You are on a tangent, since the article I posted related to VIOLENT CRIME and did not speak much of drug crime at all
This is why knowing how to debate is so important - the irrelevant data really doesn't address the point, but as Tiassa showed, looks good at first.
A few questions:
1) Who is HHS, and where is this study of crack smokers?
2) Are these crack-related arrests for dealing or using?
3) Please provide proof of racial profiliing, procedural dichotomies "apparently based on race," disparity in quality of legal representation, as well as the jury bias you indicate.
You are on a tangent, since the article I posted related to VIOLENT CRIME and did not speak much of drug crime at all
This is why knowing how to debate is so important - the irrelevant data really doesn't address the point, but as Tiassa showed, looks good at first.
Diallo ran down a dark alley and then whipped out his wallet. White, black, yellow, green... this will get you shot on nation on earth with an armed police force.
Blacks seem to attract more law enforcement attention because of the more immediately threatening nature of the crimes they commit. Who are you going to want to take out, some kid in the suburbs smoking a few joints or some d00d with a .45 who is dealing crack near a city school?
If cops are anti-black, why do they waste time at all protecting black neighborhoods?
The law does not state that the police may shoot anyone who runs from them, therfore if they do they are breaking the law and they are the criminals
Prozak:
Actually, he was in front of his apartment building. If armed police would shoot anyone who takes out a wallet in front of their own building than clearly armed police are a danger to society.
Even when the crimes are the same blacks recieve more law enforcement attention and harsher sentences than whites.
I am confusing him with another case. Then again, so are you.
Amadou Diallo was coming from the darkened doorway of an apartment building, at night, to answer the questions of some cops who were looking for a rape suspect.
He quickly reached into his jacket and not surprisingly, got blown away completely.
Shocked cops, stupid suspect.
So your philosophy when it comes to law enforcement is simply to shoot anyone who MAY be a criminal, violent or not? Out of site out of mind, and out of your way, then, right?
In a world where due process fails us we truely live in a world of terror. And yes, I am implying that you are a terrorist.
I think it's important to both protect citizens and criminals. Citizens have rights and until "proven" to be criminals should have them. However, protecting citizens to the point of being blind to crime, such as is occurring with anti-"racial profiling" laws, is favoring criminals over citizens, and that is insane.
How am I confusing the case?
I really don't see how you can argue that taking out a wallet when talking to the police justifies their shooting you. Does knowing that you have to take out a wallet in the future make you justified in shooting any nearby police before you do it? After all you never know...
Prozak
- Amadou Diallo Case (Washington Post):
But you are correct. I am erroneous in my assertion.
Please see Unattainable standards (DRCNet)
The numbers do not come from DoJ and HHS, but rather from the United States Sentencing Commission.
I'm looking for the actual report for you right now; Criminal Justice Org notes the following:
- Philadelphia Bar Association Resolution on Death Penalty
- Justice may be black and white (York Daily Record)
This one is an interesting story because it cuts to the heart of the issues; even black judges are sentencing blacks to longer sentences. In this consideration we must include financial resources (would OJ have walked if he didn't have the Dream Team of jurisprudence on his side?)
Focusing disproportionately on blacks contributes to the conditions which made black neighborhoods ripe for the introduction of crack cocaine.
People tend to blame discrimination against blacks on things like the high proportion of Negro criminals, yet they rarely consider that, despite the Emancipation Proclamation, blacks have never been able to participate in the whole of American society without having to fight the society for acceptance. Give black Americans two generations without irrational hatred of or paranoia concerning skin color by their society and I think you'll see a completely different situation.
In other words, genuinely give black Americans equality, and you'll get a more productive and efficient result.
I know, I know ... but that would interfere with your right to be a racist and to tamper with people's chances in the world because of their ethnicity, and that would make me a fascist PC thug, wouldn't it?
Perhaps it would benefit you, Prozak to approach any subject honestly for a change.
Just think about it: my assertion, the material provided in support; your errors (e.g. Diallo ran) and ignorance (e.g. HHS) and your need to isolate an issue as if it exists in a vacuum (e.g. violent crime) as well as your eventual and expected resort to a text-bite (e.g. knowing how to debate).
Consider carefully whether or not you wish to continue arguing the line and methods you do.
And then, before you go and babble away, think again.
In the meantime, while I look for the USSC 1999 Sourcebook, spend some time with Cocaine and Federal Sentencing Policy, Feb., 1995 (USSC). Chapter 7 has some good and relevant information. The Executive Summary is good, but the HTML version of the ES didn't launch, so you might be stuck with the PDF version.
:m:,
Tiassa
Diallo was shot to death just inside the front door of his own home.
- Amadou Diallo Case (Washington Post):
HHS is the United States Department of Health and Human Services, whose secretary is part of the President's cabinet.
But you are correct. I am erroneous in my assertion.
Please see Unattainable standards (DRCNet)
The numbers do not come from DoJ and HHS, but rather from the United States Sentencing Commission.
I'm looking for the actual report for you right now; Criminal Justice Org notes the following:
Let me know if you get to the numbers first. I'm working on it.
This standard applies to possession. Trafficking is its own snarly mess.
- Race to the Finish
Also:
- Philadelphia Bar Association Resolution on Death Penalty
- Justice may be black and white (York Daily Record)
This one is an interesting story because it cuts to the heart of the issues; even black judges are sentencing blacks to longer sentences. In this consideration we must include financial resources (would OJ have walked if he didn't have the Dream Team of jurisprudence on his side?)
One of the big reasons for recidivism among criminals is a lack of other options. Felony convictions for possession? That's rough. Try getting a job when you're black and have a felony conviction. I'm happy enough, in relation to that circumstance, to not be black, and even more so to not have an actual felony conviction dogging me. Hell, try getting a job when you have a felony conviction, period.
Focusing disproportionately on blacks contributes to the conditions which made black neighborhoods ripe for the introduction of crack cocaine.
People tend to blame discrimination against blacks on things like the high proportion of Negro criminals, yet they rarely consider that, despite the Emancipation Proclamation, blacks have never been able to participate in the whole of American society without having to fight the society for acceptance. Give black Americans two generations without irrational hatred of or paranoia concerning skin color by their society and I think you'll see a completely different situation.
In other words, genuinely give black Americans equality, and you'll get a more productive and efficient result.
I know, I know ... but that would interfere with your right to be a racist and to tamper with people's chances in the world because of their ethnicity, and that would make me a fascist PC thug, wouldn't it?
Perhaps it would benefit you, Prozak to approach any subject honestly for a change.
Just think about it: my assertion, the material provided in support; your errors (e.g. Diallo ran) and ignorance (e.g. HHS) and your need to isolate an issue as if it exists in a vacuum (e.g. violent crime) as well as your eventual and expected resort to a text-bite (e.g. knowing how to debate).
Consider carefully whether or not you wish to continue arguing the line and methods you do.
And then, before you go and babble away, think again.
In the meantime, while I look for the USSC 1999 Sourcebook, spend some time with Cocaine and Federal Sentencing Policy, Feb., 1995 (USSC). Chapter 7 has some good and relevant information. The Executive Summary is good, but the HTML version of the ES didn't launch, so you might be stuck with the PDF version.
:m:,
Tiassa
Re: Prozak
Why that's the very definition of immorality, Tiassa. Do you mean to suggest that using reason, and discarding arbitrary difference as factors in judgment would somehow be best for anyone at all involved? The very notion is un-American. Do you really expect us to believe that people have a moral obligation to treat others fairly? Time to go back to communist china, sister, this is the real world. (do note the sarcasm)
Why that's the very definition of immorality, Tiassa. Do you mean to suggest that using reason, and discarding arbitrary difference as factors in judgment would somehow be best for anyone at all involved? The very notion is un-American. Do you really expect us to believe that people have a moral obligation to treat others fairly? Time to go back to communist china, sister, this is the real world. (do note the sarcasm)
41 SHOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! For one fucking man!!!!!!!! 41 Shots!!!!!!!!!!! That is not prevention! The prosecution for Diallo was pathetic. How could they not stress this point enough?
As a cop, you are taught to disarm the suspect. Diallo probably didn't even believe they were cops. They shot to kill.
41 shots. After 6 shots, they should have stopped when they received no FIRE BACK. 41 damn shots!!!!!!!! Anyone who claims that this was a reasonable act is a freaking moron. 41 shots!!!!!!!
The cops were looking for rapist but tried to question Diallo because they thought he might be on the lookout for a robbery????????? A black man cannot stand on his own damn porch??????? U cannot reason with a bigot---how does shooting 41 shots, empting clips, CONSTITUTE PREVENTION???????
The damn judge wjo moved the case to Albany and the prosecution sucked. How on EARTH DO U HAVE A CASE WHERE A BLACK MAN IS MURDERED AND NOT HAVE ONE BLACK MALE AS A JUROR??? !!!!!
As a cop, you are taught to disarm the suspect. Diallo probably didn't even believe they were cops. They shot to kill.
41 shots. After 6 shots, they should have stopped when they received no FIRE BACK. 41 damn shots!!!!!!!! Anyone who claims that this was a reasonable act is a freaking moron. 41 shots!!!!!!!
The cops were looking for rapist but tried to question Diallo because they thought he might be on the lookout for a robbery????????? A black man cannot stand on his own damn porch??????? U cannot reason with a bigot---how does shooting 41 shots, empting clips, CONSTITUTE PREVENTION???????
The damn judge wjo moved the case to Albany and the prosecution sucked. How on EARTH DO U HAVE A CASE WHERE A BLACK MAN IS MURDERED AND NOT HAVE ONE BLACK MALE AS A JUROR??? !!!!!
TheFountainHed: yet another person who has never fired a pistol in the dark.
Tiassa, I'm disappointed in these reports. None explain a consistent bias in police officers, but assert there is one there. Further, all seem to rely on the same arguments, which are circumstantial at best and make the assumption that that higher black crime rates cannot be a product of black crime itself.
That's poor science. Here's useful science:
http://www.amren.com/colrcrim.html
Tiassa, I'm disappointed in these reports. None explain a consistent bias in police officers, but assert there is one there. Further, all seem to rely on the same arguments, which are circumstantial at best and make the assumption that that higher black crime rates cannot be a product of black crime itself.
That's poor science. Here's useful science:
http://www.amren.com/colrcrim.html
Re: Prozak
1 - You and most of your articles make the same error: eliminating a possibility before analyzing it logically, for political reasons.
2 - Blacks could have invented their own society within a society, as many groups previously seen as non-white (Slavs, Irish) did. Ever see a Chinatown? Many groups that faced discrimination haven't had the problems that blacks have had.
3 - ROFL. Asking for clarification on HHS isn't an error; it's careful investigation. I can see why you'd be opposed to that.
1 - You and most of your articles make the same error: eliminating a possibility before analyzing it logically, for political reasons.
2 - Blacks could have invented their own society within a society, as many groups previously seen as non-white (Slavs, Irish) did. Ever see a Chinatown? Many groups that faced discrimination haven't had the problems that blacks have had.
3 - ROFL. Asking for clarification on HHS isn't an error; it's careful investigation. I can see why you'd be opposed to that.