Birth of Earth

[Billy T]

...the Pacific plate must subduct directly under South America. This is not the case. ...

Unlike OilIsMastery, you seem to know what you are talking about (and much more than me about "plate tectonics") but this seems strange to me. I thought that the Andes Mountains were a direct result of the Pacific plate moving under them (More lighter rocks "floating higher") very much like the Indian plate building the Himalayas. Clearly the very existence of tall mountain, despite rain erosion and the resultant large river deltas, DEMANDS subduction.

 

[D H]

Billy T.,

The map OIM keeps on showing is correct. It is only OIM's interpretation of that map that is incorrect. The Pacific plate is the largest of several plates that lie under the Pacific Ocean. In particular, the Pacific plate does not abut South America. The Nazca plate lies between the Pacific plate and the South American plate.

You are correct: The very existence of the Andes demands subduction. The Nazca plate is undergoing subduction at its boundary the South American plate.


To OIM:

Edit: Oh, why bother?
To OIM:
To everyone with a mind:

The subduction at the continental boundaries of the various plates that underlie the Pacific Ocean exceeds the spreading at the midoceanic ridge. Subduction and spreading are competing processes, and subduction wins in this case. The Pacific Ocean is getting smaller.

 

[OilIsMastery]

Unlike OilIsMastery, you seem to know what you are talking about (and much more than me about "plate tectonics") but this seems strange to me. I thought that the Andes Mountains were a direct result of the Pacific plate moving under them (More lighter rocks "floating higher") very much like the Indian plate building the Himalayas. Clearly the very existence of tall mountain, despite rain erosion and the resultant large river deltas, DEMANDS subduction.

That's laughable. It's physically impossible for andesite to subduct into peridotite. Plus Satellite Laser Ranging (SLR) shows conclusively that South America and Hawaii are moving away from eachother (Smith 1990) and also that South America and Australia are moving away from eachother (Smith 1993). Thus the Pacific is growing.

 

[OilIsMastery]

You are correct: The very existence of the Andes demands subduction. The Nazca plate is undergoing subduction at its boundary the South American plate.

The Andes are a diverging spread. No subduction.

The subduction at the continental boundaries of the various plates that underlie the Pacific Ocean exceeds the spreading at the midoceanic ridge. Subduction and spreading are competing processes, and subduction wins in this case.

Subduction is a myth. Unicorns and chimeras are more real.

The Pacific Ocean is getting smaller.

Not according to SLR measurements.

 

[D H]

More fallacies from OIM:

That's laughable. It's physically impossible for andesite to subduct into peridotite.

Red herring. The Nazca plate is undergoing subduction, not the South American plate.

Plus Satellite Laser Ranging (SLR) shows conclusively that South America and Hawaii are moving away from eachother (Smith 1990) and also that South America and Australia are moving away from eachother (Smith 1993).

Red herring and cherry picking. Red herring: What happens between a point in the middle of the ocean and a selected point on the edge of the ocean, or a pair of selected points on the edge of the ocean has little to do with the overall size of the ocean. Cherry picking: How about Hawaii and Kamchatka? Australia and Alaska?

Thus the Pacific is growing.

Hasty generalization. One has to look at the Pacific Ocean as a whole (the mathematical technique is called "integration", OIM) to determine whether the Pacific Ocean is expanding or shrinking. The Pacific Ocean as a whole can still be shrinking even if two cherry-picked locations such as South America and Australia are moving apart from each other. This is akin to the false arguments against global warming: "New York (or wherever) had a record cold winter last year. Therefore global warming is false."

 

[OilIsMastery]

More fallacies from OIM:


Red herring. The Nazca plate is undergoing subduction, not the South American plate.

Since you seem to be confused, it's physically impossible for basalt (Nazca plate) to subduct into peridotite (mantle).

How about Hawaii and Kamchatka? Australia and Alaska?

They are also moving apart.

 

[Trippy]

That's laughable. It's physically impossible for andesite to subduct into peridotite. Plus Satellite Laser Ranging (SLR) shows conclusively that South America and Hawaii are moving away from eachother (Smith 1990) and also that South America and Australia are moving away from eachother (Smith 1993). Thus the Pacific is growing.

Just as well the Oceanic plates aren't andesite then isn't it?

And as for Australia and SOuth America moving away from each other? Big deal, there's at least 1 mid ocean ridge, one back arc spreading zone, and two subduction zones between them.

 

[Trippy]

Since you seem to be confused, it's physically impossible for basalt (Nazca plate) to subduct into peridotite (mantle).


They are also moving apart.

Red Herring.

Even if it were impossible for Basalt to subduct into the mantle, it's not impossible for Basalt to slide beneath Granite - which is the only thing that's required by subduction.

Besides which, your assumption ignores the fact that the Mantle is capable of undergoing a plastic flow.

 

[D H]

Since you seem to be confused, it's physically impossible for basalt (Nazca plate) to subduct into peridotite (mantle).

That is your confused opinion, or a blatant lie. Repeating the same false statement ad infinitum does not make it true.

How about Hawaii and Kamchatka? Australia and Alaska?

They are also moving apart.

Now that is a blatant lie. Hawaii and Kamchatka are moving toward one another at a fantastic clip
http://sideshow.jpl.nasa.gov/mbh/all/HILO.html
http://sideshow.jpl.nasa.gov/mbh/all/YSSK.html

as are Australia and Alaska.
http://sideshow.jpl.nasa.gov/mbh/all/ALIC.html
http://sideshow.jpl.nasa.gov/mbh/all/KODK.html

 

[OilIsMastery]

Just as well the Oceanic plates aren't andesite then isn't it?

Andesite/basalt, whatever name you want to use.

And as for Australia and SOuth America moving away from each other? Big deal, there's at least 1 mid ocean ridge, one back arc spreading zone, and two subduction zones between them.

Apparently the alleged subduction zones aren't preventing the expansion of the Pacific Ocean or the Earth.

 

[Trippy]

Andesite/basalt, whatever name you want to use.


Apparently the alleged subduction zones aren't preventing the expansion of the Pacific Ocean or the Earth.

Congratulations, on, once again, completely missing the point.

 

[OilIsMastery]

Now that is a blatant lie. Hawaii and Kamchatka are moving toward one another at a fantastic clip
http://sideshow.jpl.nasa.gov/mbh/all/HILO.html
http://sideshow.jpl.nasa.gov/mbh/all/YSSK.html

as are Australia and Alaska.
http://sideshow.jpl.nasa.gov/mbh/all/ALIC.html
http://sideshow.jpl.nasa.gov/mbh/all/KODK.html

I'm not sure what that nonsense is. It looks like junk pseudoscience to me.

Lageos observations show that the Pacific basin is moving to the northwest with respect to North America at the rate of about an inch and half per year.

Link

Each year Australia moves 2.7 inches away from Hawaii. Therefore your false religion and primitive 20th century mythology cannot possibly be true.

 

[D H]

I'm not sure what that nonsense is. It looks like junk pseudoscience to me.

HILO, (Hilo, Hawaii), latitude 19.7192 N, longitude 155.0527 W, is moving to the west northwest at 72.3 cm/year.
YSSK, (Yuzhno-Sakhaklinks, Russia) latitude 47.029736 N, longitude 142.716719‎ E, is moving to the southeast at 18.9 cm/year.
They are moving toward one another.

ALIC, (Alice Springs, Australia), latitude 23.6701 N, longitude 133.8855‎ E, is moving to the north northeast at 67.0 cm/year.
KODK (Kodiak Island, Alaska), latitude 57.74 N, longitude 152.50 W, is moving to the southwest at 18.0 cm/year.
They are moving toward one another.

Lageos observations show that the Pacific basin is moving to the northwest with respect to North America at the rate of about an inch and half per year.

Link

Nice how you left out the very next sentence, which goes against your claim.

You can't cherry pick data points. You have to look at the whole picture to determine whether the Pacific is expanding or shrinking. Just because a few cherry picked points are moving away from one another does not mean that the Pacific is expanding. Do you honestly not understand this concept, or are you intentionally being intellectually dishonest?

 

[OilIsMastery]

I understand the concept. I can also imagine chimeras and unicorns.

 

[Billy T]

...You can't cherry pick data points. ... Do you honestly not understand this concept, or are you intentionally being intellectually dishonest?

Sure he can! OIM cherry picks data in most of his posts. I think he does understand the concept of cherry picking. If he did not, he would not be able to do it so consistently. Thus, there really is not much of a choice as to the reason why he does cherry pick. (Obviously, your second alternative is it.)

 

[OilIsMastery]

You're the ones cherry picking. You deliberately ignore every scientific observation I've ever cited. That's called fundamentalism.

 

[D H]

You understand the concept. In short, you admit to lying and using logical fallacies all in the name of your silly faith. Isn't that something your faith tells you not to do?

 

[Ophiolite]

I understand the concept. I can also imagine chimeras and unicorns.

Can you imagine a very sharp spike inserted in your anus?

 

[synthesizer-patel]

"Subduction is not only illogical, it is not supported by geological or physical evidence, and violates fundamental laws of physics." -- Lawrence S. Myers, cryptologist/geoscientist, 1999

NB - unpublished unevidenced non-peer-reviewed assertion

Given the calibre of the poster, and her reputation, who's suprised?

 

[pjdude1219]

I'm not sure what that nonsense is. It looks like junk pseudoscience to me.

NASA is junk science??? WTF were you dropped on your head as a baby?

Each year Australia moves 2.7 inches away from Hawaii. Therefore your false religion and primitive 20th century mythology cannot possibly be true.

It proves nothing other than you don't understand science and logic. You should be thankful stupidity isn't a bannable offense.