Bible Question.

[OliverJ]

I guess this question is for Christians, ? but here it is ? Is there any scripture , in the Torah - or Old Testament where God specifically says.... That he apologizes for being a cruel creator and so he sent his only begotten son?

The scripture itself that says that will not be sufficient in my mind, "For God so loved the world he sent his only begotten son"

I want a definitive... as in-- Precisely defined or explicit --scripture? Nothing rhetorical. But a quote saying he apologizes for his cruelty?

If there is one sign me up.... I will forgive him. If not, Deist I remain.

I know I made that sound real simple, but trust me, I have been soul searching for quite sometime. Trying in my heart to understand it all, and it really all boils down to this.

 

[Alpha]

Well, a search through the bible for the terms 'god' & 'lord' combined with 'apologize', 'regret', and 'sorry' turned up nothing of relevance.

 

[Adstar]

OliverJ

I guess this question is for Christians, ? but here it is ? Is there any scripture , in the Torah - or Old Testament where God specifically says.... That he apologizes for being a cruel creator and so he sent his only begotten son?

I know of no such scripture. But i have seen scripture Where God relents from an act of wrath He said he was going to carry out against a people when they have repented from their evil doings.

I want a definitive... as in-- Precisely defined or explicit --scripture? Nothing rhetorical. But a quote saying he apologizes for his cruelty?

If there is one sign me up.... I will forgive him. If not, Deist I remain.

I know I made that sound real simple, but trust me, I have been soul searching for quite sometime. Trying in my heart to understand it all, and it really all boils down to this.

What does your thoughts on Gods justice or cruelty have to do with God being real or not?

If The God of the Bible is as claimed the One and Only God of all Exsistance then irrespective of your liking or disliking Him, you must still deal with Him. Because if the Bible is correct He has control of your Eternal destiny. You cannot say to yourself "I don't like God therefore i will have nothing to do with Him". The God of Abraham either is or He is not. That is the first question you must come to a conclusion on. If you believe that He is then you have to seek a relationship with Him.


Proverbs 14
21He who despises his neighbor sins;
But he who has mercy on the poor, happy is he.
22Do they not go astray who devise evil?
But mercy and truth belong to those who devise good.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[§outh§tar]

That is incomprehensible to think God "relents". Have you so soon forgotten the words of scripture?

Numbers 23

19 God is not a man, that he should lie,
nor a son of man, that he should change his mind.
Does he speak and then not act?
Does he promise and not fulfill?


As for apologizing for being cruel read this:

29 He who is the Glory of Israel does not lie or change his mind; for he is not a man, that he should change his mind."

 

[StarOfEight]

South, doesn't he apologize for the flood, or at the very least, promise to never do it again as a part of the covenant?

 

[Tiassa]

OliverJ -

I'm thinking the latter portion of the Book of Job might shed some light, unfortunately not the light you seem to seek. The Lord seems uh ... disinclined ... to apologize for anything. Rather, He gets touchy if anyone gets close to the issue. The suggestion that a human would dare judge God at all--e.g. call Him cruel--seems nearly humorous insofar as if God has a face, He had that vicious and condescending twinkle in His eye when He lectured Job much like Lloyd Bentsen just before he torched Dan Quayle on the Kennedy bit.

 

[Adstar]

As for apologizing for being cruel read this:

29 He who is the Glory of Israel does not lie or change his mind; for he is not a man, that he should change his mind."

Who apologized?????????????? Did i apologize for God ??????????? Quote my apology if you can. otherwise do not falsely accuse me ok.

That is incomprehensible to think God "relents". Have you so soon forgotten the words of scripture?

Numbers 23

19 God is not a man, that he should lie,
nor a son of man, that he should change his mind.
Does he speak and then not act?
Does he promise and not fulfill?

Well who here has forgotten scripture??????????

Have a read of some scripture and it will remind you of what you have forgotten. If in fact the Holy Spirit has ever guided you in understanding?

Exodus 32
11Then Moses pleaded with the LORD his God, and said: "LORD, why does Your wrath burn hot against Your people whom You have brought out of the land of Egypt with great power and with a mighty hand? 12Why should the Egyptians speak, and say, "He brought them out to harm them, to kill them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth'? Turn from Your fierce wrath, and relent from this harm to Your people. 13Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, Your servants, to whom You swore by Your own self, and said to them, "I will multiply your descendants as the stars of heaven; and all this land that I have spoken of I give to your descendants, and they shall inherit it forever."' 14 So the LORD relented from the harm which He said He would do to His people.

2 Samuel 24:16
And when the angel stretched out His hand over Jerusalem to destroy it, the LORD relented from the destruction, and said to the angel who was destroying the people, "It is enough; now restrain your hand." And the angel of the LORD was by the threshing floor of Araunah the Jebusite.


Psalm 106:45
And for their sake He remembered His covenant, And relented according to the multitude of His mercies.

Jeremiah 18
5Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying: 6"O house of Israel, can I not do with you as this potter?" says the LORD. "Look, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are you in My hand, O house of Israel! 7The instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, to pull down, and to destroy it, 8 if that nation against whom I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent of the disaster that I thought to bring upon it. 9And the instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it, 10if it does evil in My sight so that it does not obey My voice, then I will relent concerning the good with which I said I would benefit it.


Jonah 3
5 So the people of Nineveh believed God, proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest to the least of them. 6Then word came to the king of Nineveh; and he arose from his throne and laid aside his robe, covered himself with sackcloth and sat in ashes. 7And he caused it to be proclaimed and published throughout Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste anything; do not let them eat, or drink water. 8But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily to God; yes, let every one turn from his evil way and from the violence that is in his hands. 9Who can tell if God will turn and relent, and turn away from His fierce anger, so that we may not perish? 10Then God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God relented from the disaster that He had said He would bring upon them, and He did not do it.

Oh the whole book of Jonah is about God relenting from deserved punishment because of peoples repentance. I could keep on quoting §outh§tar but what’s the point? You read my post and come out with a false accusation no wonder you have read scripture and come out with a false interpretation of the will of God.

All praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[surenderer]

I guess this question is for Christians, ? but here it is ? Is there any scripture , in the Torah - or Old Testament where God specifically says.... That he apologizes for being a cruel creator and so he sent his only begotten son?

The scripture itself that says that will not be sufficient in my mind, "For God so loved the world he sent his only begotten son"

I want a definitive... as in-- Precisely defined or explicit --scripture? Nothing rhetorical. But a quote saying he apologizes for his cruelty?

If there is one sign me up.... I will forgive him. If not, Deist I remain.

I know I made that sound real simple, but trust me, I have been soul searching for quite sometime. Trying in my heart to understand it all, and it really all boils down to this.

Well with all do respect i would like to ask the christians here if Jesus(saws) was God's only begotten son the explain psalms 2:7 (says david is God's begotten son) only curious for your answer please take no disrespect.......peace

 

[Cyperium]

I guess this question is for Christians, ? but here it is ? Is there any scripture , in the Torah - or Old Testament where God specifically says.... That he apologizes for being a cruel creator and so he sent his only begotten son?

The scripture itself that says that will not be sufficient in my mind, "For God so loved the world he sent his only begotten son"

I want a definitive... as in-- Precisely defined or explicit --scripture? Nothing rhetorical. But a quote saying he apologizes for his cruelty?

If there is one sign me up.... I will forgive him. If not, Deist I remain.

I know I made that sound real simple, but trust me, I have been soul searching for quite sometime. Trying in my heart to understand it all, and it really all boils down to this.

I don't understand why He would be a cruel creator for sending His only son...why? Jesus still had his own will. Is God a cruel creator because we don't follow Him? Saving humanity isn't a act of cruelty. Though Jesus didn't want to die, and asked God if there weren't another way, but He also said that He would follow Gods will not his own will. Do you think Jesus didn't know that He would suffer? Some fathers have to send their sons into war, some things just have to be.

Also, since Jesus had His free will in life, He could have changed the destiny so that He wouldn't be crucified, but that would take away the purpouse of sending Him, He knew what was going to happen to Him every step of the way and didn't try to change it. He also said alot about what was going to happen to the followers though they didn't allways understand it.

 

[Enigma'07]

Oliver,
God is not a cruel creator, therefore, ther is no scripture where He apologizes for it. There is suffering in this world becuse we made the choice to sin. God is holy and cannot tolerate sin, therefore, we are seperated from him. Because God loved us, His fallen creation SO MUCH, he wanted us to be with him. there had to be a sacrifice to atone for the sin, but Jesus was the only person that could be the sacrifice. this is because He did not sin. He was perfect is God's eyes and was the only acceptable sacrifice. Therefore, if we trust Jesus, we can KNOW God. And it is an awsome experiance!

I can say that I struggled with some stuff (depression) and I wondered why does God allow this to happen and then I realized it was because of that time I had lied. It was because of the time I stole. I wasn't doing what I was made to do an I was misrable. But then God showed me here is your purpose in life, and yeah the struggle's still there, but I know I'm not alone, and that makes it barable. Feel free to PM me if you want more information of clarification or something.

 

[Enigma'07]

Surenderer

Psalm 2:7
"I will surly tell of the decree of the LORD (Jehoviah): He said to Me,'You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.(NAS)

Acts 13:33
that God has fufilled this promise to our children in that He raised up Jesus, as it is also written in the second Psalm,'YOU ARE MY SON; TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU.'(NAS)

When Daivd speaks of "You are My Son, Today I have begotten You", it referse to Jesus Christ being the eternal king, not David. The capital letters are there for a reason, they show that part of the God-head, Jesus is being spoken to. David is just repeating what was said. The verse from Acts also supports this. Does that make sense?

 

[surenderer]

Surenderer

Psalm 2:7
"I will surly tell of the decree of the LORD (Jehoviah): He said to Me,'You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.(NAS)

Acts 13:33
that God has fufilled this promise to our children in that He raised up Jesus, as it is also written in the second Psalm,'YOU ARE MY SON; TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU.'(NAS)

When Daivd speaks of "You are My Son, Today I have begotten You", it referse to Jesus Christ being the eternal king, not David. The capital letters are there for a reason, they show that part of the God-head, Jesus is being spoken to. David is just repeating what was said. The verse from Acts also supports this. Does that make sense?

we can agree to disagree then but check out this link




http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/4229/djd.html

 

[Adstar]

This explains the realation between God and Jesus. Jesus is the Word.He is the Light.

John1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. 8He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world. 10He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name 13who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[surenderer]

This explains the realation between God and Jesus. Jesus is the Word.He is the Light.

John1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. 8He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world. 10He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name 13who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Thank you for your reply Adstar thats the most sensible response i've heard to my questions on this topic maybe ever but tell me why Jesus never said I am God or I am part of a trinity or something like that.Since God isnt the author of confusion (which i agree with) wouldnt that eliminate the confusion?....peace

 

[Cyperium]

Thank you for your reply Adstar thats the most sensible response i've heard to my questions on this topic maybe ever but tell me why Jesus never said I am God or I am part of a trinity or something like that.Since God isnt the author of confusion (which i agree with) wouldnt that eliminate the confusion?....peace

Actually Jesus did say something to the effect of a trinity, when He said that God was in Him and He was in God.

I think that in the same effect we are in Jesus and Jesus in us. In that scenario Jesus is like a link between us and God.

I'm sure that you can find more that Jesus said that indicated a trinity also.

Sometimes you have to know what to look for to find it. Sometimes you find what you didn't look for.

 

[SnakeLord]

I think that in the same effect we are in Jesus and Jesus in us. In that scenario Jesus is like a link between us and God.

But that makes you no more part of the trinity than it does him. Very often you hear people say jesus is within them or whatever, but that doesn't make you god/or a part of god. By that same token, jesus saying god was in him doesn't imply in any way that he is actually god himself - unless you think you're jesus?

All we need to do is point out this:

"And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good
but God alone." [Mr 10:18]

Case closed.

 

[§outh§tar]

Who apologized?????????????? Did i apologize for God ??????????? Quote my apology if you can. otherwise do not falsely accuse me ok.




Well who here has forgotten scripture??????????

Have a read of some scripture and it will remind you of what you have forgotten. If in fact the Holy Spirit has ever guided you in understanding?

Exodus 32
11Then Moses pleaded with the LORD his God, and said: "LORD, why does Your wrath burn hot against Your people whom You have brought out of the land of Egypt with great power and with a mighty hand? 12Why should the Egyptians speak, and say, "He brought them out to harm them, to kill them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth'? Turn from Your fierce wrath, and relent from this harm to Your people. 13Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, Your servants, to whom You swore by Your own self, and said to them, "I will multiply your descendants as the stars of heaven; and all this land that I have spoken of I give to your descendants, and they shall inherit it forever."' 14 So the LORD relented from the harm which He said He would do to His people.

2 Samuel 24:16
And when the angel stretched out His hand over Jerusalem to destroy it, the LORD relented from the destruction, and said to the angel who was destroying the people, "It is enough; now restrain your hand." And the angel of the LORD was by the threshing floor of Araunah the Jebusite.


Psalm 106:45
And for their sake He remembered His covenant, And relented according to the multitude of His mercies.

Jeremiah 18
5Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying: 6"O house of Israel, can I not do with you as this potter?" says the LORD. "Look, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are you in My hand, O house of Israel! 7The instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, to pull down, and to destroy it, 8 if that nation against whom I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent of the disaster that I thought to bring upon it. 9And the instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it, 10if it does evil in My sight so that it does not obey My voice, then I will relent concerning the good with which I said I would benefit it.


Jonah 3
5 So the people of Nineveh believed God, proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest to the least of them. 6Then word came to the king of Nineveh; and he arose from his throne and laid aside his robe, covered himself with sackcloth and sat in ashes. 7And he caused it to be proclaimed and published throughout Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste anything; do not let them eat, or drink water. 8But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily to God; yes, let every one turn from his evil way and from the violence that is in his hands. 9Who can tell if God will turn and relent, and turn away from His fierce anger, so that we may not perish? 10Then God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God relented from the disaster that He had said He would bring upon them, and He did not do it.

Oh the whole book of Jonah is about God relenting from deserved punishment because of peoples repentance. I could keep on quoting §outh§tar but what’s the point? You read my post and come out with a false accusation no wonder you have read scripture and come out with a false interpretation of the will of God.

All praise The Ancient Of Days

Calm down, we're on the same side or at least I think we are..


My interpretation might be different from yours but my case still stands. None of your scripture AT ALLl discredits what I have said, unless you dare to say that the Bible contradicts itself. Instead of being so haughty, you should actually look to see why there's an "apparent contradiction" in the Holy Bible.

Let's examine two verses of scripture .

Numbers 230
19 God is not a man, that he should lie,
nor a son of man, that he should change his mind.
Does he speak and then not act?
Does he promise and not fulfill?

1 Samuel 15
10 Then the word of the LORD came to Samuel: 11 "I am grieved that I have made Saul king, because he has turned away from me and has not carried out my instructions." Samuel was troubled, and he cried out to the LORD all that night.

Do you see what appears at first glance to be a contradiction in the Bible? I believe Matthew Henry, in his commentary, best explains the situation:

"Repentance in God is not, as it is in us, a change of his mind, but a change of his method or dispensation. He does not alter his will, but wills an alteration. The change was in Saul."

@ Starofeight
He does promise never to destroy the earth by water as He tells us in verse 21: ... nor will I again destroy every living thing as I have done.

He however did NOT relent, as some falsely report, in destroying all other life on earth.

If you examine the text closely, you will notice that Matthew Henry's exegesis applies here as well:

God did NOT make that promise until AFTER a change in Noah. Scripture tells us:

Genesis 8 (This is immediately after Noah offers burnt offerings on the altar)
21 And the Lord smelled a soothing aroma. Then the Lord said in His heart....

It was not until after the offering from Noah that God made His vow, and therefore it was in no way an apology, a regret, or a "relenting" of His divine authority.


As for Adstar:

This is the definition of relent

1: to become less severe, harsh, or strict usually from reasons of humanity
2: LET UP, SLACKEN

I hope you now see that God does NOT relent His eternal will. The examples you showed only PROVE that our God is a God who is compassionate and shows mercy.

Remember, God has already planned out the ENTIRE course of eternity. He will NOT relent because His will is "that which is good and perfect". Do you notice that in the verses you culled, His compassion is a result of mankind turning away from his sin, NOT God turning away from His will?


Instead of accusing me of things I have not done, you should try to find the harmony in Scripture, for the Word never contradicts itself.

Christians are brethren not arguers.

 

[Cyperium]

But that makes you no more part of the trinity than it does him. Very often you hear people say jesus is within them or whatever, but that doesn't make you god/or a part of god. By that same token, jesus saying god was in him doesn't imply in any way that he is actually god himself - unless you think you're jesus?

All we need to do is point out this:



Case closed.

I see what you mean, and I honestly don't know how to answer you. Though I'm confident that there is an answer.

You will have to wait a while on this one

 

[§outh§tar]

But that makes you no more part of the trinity than it does him. Very often you hear people say jesus is within them or whatever, but that doesn't make you god/or a part of god. By that same token, jesus saying god was in him doesn't imply in any way that he is actually god himself - unless you think you're jesus?

Case closed.

Jesus tacitly referred to His own divine goodness and the Godhead.

How amusing that you forget that He tells, "I and the Father are one."

 

[§outh§tar]

Thank you for your reply Adstar thats the most sensible response i've heard to my questions on this topic maybe ever but tell me why Jesus never said I am God or I am part of a trinity or something like that.Since God isnt the author of confusion (which i agree with) wouldnt that eliminate the confusion?....peace

Let's list the evidence:

Luke 24
27And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.

44He said to them, "This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms."

John 5
46If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me.

Can't get any clearer than this:
John 8
54Jesus replied, "If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and keep his word. 56Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad."
57"You are not yet fifty years old," the Jews said to him, "and you have seen Abraham!"
58"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"

Acts 3
18But this is how God fulfilled what he had foretold through all the prophets, saying that his Christ would suffer.


"In the Old Testament there are sixty major messianic prophecies and approximately 270 ramifications that were fulfilled in one person, Jesus Christ."
-McDowell, More Than A Carpenter