No, he called to be overwhelmed with his miracles so we can believe.
JimHR said:
So you are suggesting that faith is attained by means of fear of the infamous "Lako del Fire?"
If not, how does one attain faith in God?
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Bible contradictions
- Thread starter w1z4rd
- Start date
No, he called to be overwhelmed with his miracles so we can believe.
So you are suggesting that faith is attained by means of fear of the infamous "Lako del Fire?"
If not, how does one attain faith in God?
Then you wouldn't have been seeking with a sincere heart. "Call on the name of the Lord (with sincerity) and you shall be saved."
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M*W: IAC, exactly what have you been saved from? Does the name Ed Young mean anything to you?
Saved from eternal damnation, no big deal.
May I remind everyone also that faith is the central component to Christianity? We are called to believe.
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M*W: This is a scary thing. Who called you? How did you hear from them? By what means? What kind of confirmation did you receive (discernment, etc.)? When did you know you believed what they called you to believe? When was it clear in your mind this was a good thing? What beliefs do you follow by those who called you? What was their message to you?
PLEASE JUST ANSWER THE QUESTIONS TO THE BEST OF YOUR ABILITY.
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M*W: If the god of all the universe created you, why would he create you with "limited mental ability?" If there were a god, don't you think we would all be created with superior mental ability (as in the image of the gods)?
Faith isn't all that hard.
PLEASE JUST ANSWER THE QUESTIONS TO THE BEST OF YOUR ABILITY.
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M*W: That's also a scary concept. Faith should be hard. It should be rather difficult. It should be researched and tested. It should be a proven fact... yet, it's not. It's so easy to have faith, and so many people have the same faith that there's nothing complicated to it... and this is god we're talking about... it should be blatantly obvious that there is a god and faith is a gift, but it's only obvious to blind believers! To those of us whose eyes are opened, we don't see it.
To know what your faith is simply ask yourself, "What does or does not happen to me when I die? You will find your faith. I pray and hope you are not trusting the fate of your precious soul with your seemingly limited ability to have faith.
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M*W: I'm well aware and quite content that what was my body will become worm food. I trust that I will be quite tasty and will contribute to the ecosystem in a nutritious way.
Will you continue to doubt, or will you believe?
I'll await your specific answers. Thanks.
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I think that's a perversion of Jesus' message. The orthodox church supplanted his teaching about cultivated personal transformation and turned it into an exercise in brainless belief. The purpose was social control. By artificially placing the bishops in a line of apostolic succession, they rob the people of the ability to interpret Jesus' words for themselves, to create their own ceremonies and sacrements. Only the bishops could determine the word, your job is only to believe it.
Excerpt from the "The Gnostic Gospels" ,Elaine Pagels.
Prior to Roman Emperor Constantine’s conversion to Christianity in 323 c.e., the antagonism that existed between the hierarchy of priests an bishops and the followers of Gnosticism is well documented. When Gnostics met for church, they drew lots to see who would assume the various roles.
Unfortunately, Constantine sided with the hierarchy of priests and bishops. Now they had the Roman Empire at their disposal and dispatched it to eradicate Gnosticism. When the book burning was ordered, some Gnostic Christians hid existing scriptures in burial urns hoping that God would one day return them to the world.
Many of these lost scriptures resurfaced on October 4, 1946, when a sheepherder discovered them. The scrolls were found buried in a three-foot tall clay urn in a cave near Nag Hammadi, Egypt. Since then these scriptures have been called the Nag Hammadi Library and they are now available to anyone who cares to go exploring.
Corruption and re-editing indeed! :bugeye:
Hey spidergoat, What's up! (love the name btw)
Well your answers need to be supported by Scripture. I don't seek answers that cater to my limited knowledge. The Bible is the ultimate authority and its answers are perfect and righteous. This ties in with the will of God.
I will be completely honest in saying that this is where all the different denominations come from. Some do some things a certain way, others do some things another way. But there is only one true Christianity--and that is only found by learning wisdom in the Bible. The wisdom of the Bible can keep us busy for a lifetime! (and thus very appropriate) You cannot imagine the many truths to be discovered in the Bible!
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M*W: I can appreciate your admission that you don't have all the answers, so you keep searching. That's all one could ask. I have a couple of questions for you. Why are there some 34,000 christian denominations? Why do they fight amongst themselves? Which one is right true church? If Jesus were here today, which one would he be a member of? He would know, wouldn't he?
There was one denomination just after He resurrected, so there will be one denomination when He returns.
It's sort of like the Deluge legends from hundreds of seemingly disparate people groups, the true story, recorded in Genesis, was added to or changed somewhat according to man's desires in the other renditions, as the Catholic church has added to the canon, and the Mormons have changed it, very strange, but it will all get sorted out when He returns.
IceAgeCivilizations:
Catholics didn't add to the canon. Protestants took away from it.
Catholics didn't add to the canon. Protestants took away from it.
There was one denomination just after He resurrected, so there will be one denomination when He returns.
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M*W: Well, what is that one denomination? Please answer the question that I addressed to JimHR. (Jim, I'll also await your answer, and then we'll compare notes).
The Church (Body) of Jesus Christ.
IceAgeCivilizations:
Catholics didn't add to the canon. Protestants took away from it.
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M*W: Thank you for saying that. I had a conversation just today with a Southern Baptist (my best friend, as it were). Her belief is that catholics added to the canon. I agree with you.
Who do you think wrote the Pentateuch?
Certainly not Moses, considering it details his own death.
By the way, the originator of this argument was a Christian - Thomas Hobbes.
By the way, the originator of this argument was a Christian - Thomas Hobbes.
Who do you think wrote the Pentateuch?
God himself came down, picked up a pen and paper, and wrote away.
Could not have a subsequent writer ended the Pentateuch with the description of Moses' end?
And if Moses didn't write it, Princie, then who did, and when, and what is your evidence for that?
And if Moses didn't write it, Princie, then who did, and when, and what is your evidence for that?
IceAgeCivilizations:
Several authors, representing different religious viewpoints:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentateuch
And to say "it was written by Moses" then to say that "it was finished by someone else" is to discredit it immediatly as a book of Moses.
Several authors, representing different religious viewpoints:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentateuch
And to say "it was written by Moses" then to say that "it was finished by someone else" is to discredit it immediatly as a book of Moses.
No, he called to be overwhelmed with his miracles so we can believe.
So you are suggesting that faith is attained by means of fear of the infamous "Lako del Fire?"
If not, how does one attain faith in God?
Uh no NDS I never said that, did I? Please don't just throw out random things--let's stick to the topic. I hope that doesn't offend you but I'm going to be honest.
What method should we believe? Answer me that. What method could encompass the entire earth and be accesible to every individual who has ever lived? The young, the old, the poor, the rich, the smart, the dumb, Africans, Chinese, Arabs, Americans. Those who lived two thousand years ago--those who lived during the wars in Mongolia and the famines in Europe--those who live today. What method other than faith could each individual on the face of the earth discover him? Remember that He gave us a free will--and He's not going to force us to believe in Him.
The answer is faith. It is completely the source of salvation. It is perfect.
Have faith in Jesus by simply asking Him. Read Luke 11:9 in your Bible--you do have one since you personally discovered those contradictions, and didn't just search Google did you?
Uh no NDS I never said that, did I? Please don't just throw out random things--let's stick to the topic. I hope that doesn't offend you but I'm going to be honest.
First off, I never said you said that. You're the one who said that I said that you said that, when really I was trying to make a point.
Jim, why did the early Christian fathers (Peter, Paul) and Jesus perform miracles? Thanks.
What method should we believe? Answer me that.
Whatever method IAC lays out, because he is omnicient.
The answer is faith. It is completely the source of salvation. It is perfect.
Okay, faith is the source of salvation, but what is the source of faith?
Also, "faith" in terms of people's faith, is far from perfect.
For example, I have a 10% strength of faith in the fact that Global Warming is being caused by man. Such a low faith level in that fact is not nearly enough to persuade me to alter my energy consumption in any way.
Similarily, 90% of people who call themselves "Christians" have low strengths of faith, meaning they don't alter their lives in any way in relation to that "belief."
It's great to say "I believe in Jesus," but I could also say "I believe eating too much beans will give me cancer" and then eat beans like they're going out of style. So there is a difference between "kind of thinking something in the back of your mind," and "having a strong belief in something."
May I remind everyone also that faith is the central component to Christianity? We are called to believe.
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M*W: This is a scary thing. Who called you? How did you hear from them? By what means? What kind of confirmation did you receive (discernment, etc.)? When did you know you believed what they called you to believe? When was it clear in your mind this was a good thing? What beliefs do you follow by those who called you? What was their message to you?
PLEASE JUST ANSWER THE QUESTIONS TO THE BEST OF YOUR ABILITY.
Hey M*W!! I had just told this to NDS--but please don't go in circles--I, nor you, have the time to repeat everything we say. I'm not saying that to be offensive, but honest.
Ok--for the last time (I hope)--No one has told me anything, I didn't go to Bible training school to convince myself to read the Bible, I didn't have a voice from Heaven come down and whisper things into my ears. I chose to read the Bible open mindedly. Is that really difficult to comprehend? Why shouldn't I be open minded? Because I don't carry all the presuppositions you carry? When I read the Bible with an open-mind--using my mind which is half intellect/half emotion--I concluded that it was the Word of God. Why is that so unfathomable?
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M*W: If the god of all the universe created you, why would he create you with "limited mental ability?" If there were a god, don't you think we would all be created with superior mental ability (as in the image of the gods)?
PLEASE JUST ANSWER THE QUESTIONS TO THE BEST OF YOUR ABILITY.
Well he didn't make us gods. If we had His knowledge we would be equal with God. But we have a lot of similar characteristics like we are creative, loving, etc. Plus we are separated by sin. We are His creation. His creation choose to rebel (hence the free will), and thats were sin comes in. We are separated by sin from understanding the things of God.
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M*W: That's also a scary concept. Faith should be hard. It should be rather difficult. It should be researched and tested. It should be a proven fact... yet, it's not. It's so easy to have faith, and so many people have the same faith that there's nothing complicated to it... and this is god we're talking about... it should be blatantly obvious that there is a god and faith is a gift, but it's only obvious to blind believers! To those of us whose eyes are opened, we don't see it.
Then its not faith its fact. And faith is a gift. So you would want God to reveal himself to a certain group of people? Sounds to me like you are not being very compassionate. Please I beg of you to read Matthew 20:1-15. Will you please be open-minded about it? Tell me if you read it.
"Then Jesus called a little child to Him, set him in the midst of them, and said, “Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 18:2-4
Are you sure your eyes aren't closed? Don't let me be your judge but God.
"Your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls." 1 Peter 1:7-9
Please read my previous post about how faith in God is the only method by which Christ could have provided redemption for all of humanity. He is not going to force us to love Him. He did not make us robots. He will not provide overwhelming evidence so we have to believe. He gave us a simple free will.
If its so easy to have faith--then why are you struggling so?
And besides--the wisdom of the Bible can take more than a lifetime to learn. Which was the exact intention. And wisdom is not blind faith.
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M*W: I'm well aware and quite content that what was my body will become worm food. I trust that I will be quite tasty and will contribute to the ecosystem in a nutritious way.
Okay so this is your faith. Why do you choose to believe in this rather than the truths of Scripture? I am so glad you finally admitted to this.
What if you are wrong? Where does the Bible say you will go?
In all honesty I think it is foolishness to believe that. And you have no credibility to believe this. You are trusting the fate of your soul, the lives of your children and the very cause of your existence to a simple made-up belief.
See how much value simple faith has?
What is really holding you back M*W?
"The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance." 2 Peter 3:9
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