Bible contradictions

[SkinWalker]

When inventing a doctrine designed to appeal to the largest number of people (arguments from popularity are a common human fallacy after all), forgiving the sins of the believer and promising eternal life in exchange for belief in the doctrine are good strategies. Con artists have always been good at promising unrealistic rewards for credulous trust.

 

[Satyr]

To a degraded intellect, brought up in the teachings of shame and guilt and groveling before the unknown – the Judeo-Christian tradition – any hope for “forgiveness” to absolve its shame for being human, is a positive aspect and reward for its docility and ignorance.
Brought up to feel embarrassed for being alive and for certain socially and culturally “undesirable” instinctual drives, it spends its life trying to repress itself into a dysfunctioning, unthinking degenerate state, it calls pious, so as to gain access to its, hoped for, deathless dying.

The notion that men must feel guilty for being men or that we are sinners simply for existing as we are, points to the motive or seizing rational control over one’s Becoming not through courage and overcoming but through suppression and shame – the moral feeling.
The surrender of the self to the herd or the Other is completed as one feels guilty towards a God which personifies the hopes and aspirations of the group.
That is the individual feels ashamed towards the others.

 

[IceAgeCivilizations]

Why is that an unrealistic promise, that humans can be forgiven of all their sins? (I'm glad you're not god Skin.)

 

[IceAgeCivilizations]

Why won't they sell you enemas Saty?

 

[SetiAlpha6]

But all the believers' sins are forgiven, pretty cool.

Yes, it is believe or welcome to the eternal torture chamber. Now that's freewill!

There is a gun to your head and a command to love the guy holding the gun or die.

Now it all seems right!

 

[SkinWalker]

Why is that an unrealistic promise, that humans can be forgiven of all their sins? (I'm glad you're not god Skin.)

"Unrealistic" in the sense that the promise isn't based on reality but, instead, on the mythology of Bronze and Iron age semi-nomads. Moreover, there is no evidence of afterlife or any good reason to believe that there is any set of gods as believed by Christians that are willing to "forgive" any human "sins" (a term that is subjective and loaded to begin with).

 

[mikenostic]

The basic test of free-will is this:
Is need dependant or independent?
If it is dependant then the will is never free, for freedom is the absence of all dependence and would make the will unfocused and unnecessary.
Life is need animated and directed, by a Will, towards its finality or impossible/improbable completion – in essence it is a death wish.
Need is temporality or the flux made conscious of itself – suffering being an extreme case of need.

I know this wasn't your intent, but thanks for backing up what I said earlier about the 'generalization' of that statement of free will.

And note: that Jesus' death concluded the law covenant not he's presence on the Earth alone. It was a sign of change. The Isrealites were released from their appointed service to God.

God therein opened up his service to all the people of the nations. Jesus followers were instructed to "GO therefore and preach to the whole inhabited Earth,

This isn't so much a bible contradiction as it is, 'somethings just don't add up';
It kinda makes me wonder why God needed to have Jesus die on the cross for our sins to begin with. It seems that an omnipotent god can do whatever the hell he wants to, including 'erasing' sins by way of omnipotence alone. Jesus' crucifiction seems like an elaborate, disguised cover up for God's fuck up.

God did not have to cast Adam and Eve out of the garden of Eden. God did not have to allow Satan (the serpent) in the garden of Eden to tempt Eve to begin with. God, being the omnipotent deity he is, could have killed the serpent and Eve would have never eaten the apple. Also, the omnipotent, clairvoyant God would have seen that the serpent was going to tempt Eve and could have been in the spot waiting to ambush the serpent before it or Eve even got to the apple tree.

If the bible did happen the way it says it did, then God brought all this shit on himself, and brought us along for the ride. Benevolent and merciful my ASS.

And why does Jesus stay in the Middle East? Why couldn't have have taken his ass across the globe and preached the whole inhabited Earth himself? And apparently not everyone got that memo because we have the Mayans, Incas, Aztecs and Native Americans from the West had never even heard of God or Jesus or Christianity until people from Europe visited them back in the 15th century; boy, it only took 1500 years for them to get there.

 

[Saquist]

And what do you think those scriptures mean, Seti? What is the meaning of them?

The Law Covenant was for Isreal and Isreal alone. Paul rather than debate whether cicumcision was still to be practiced and unclean meats to be dined on said not to stumble each other.

Esssentially though, time were changing. The Commandments remained in tact in the TWO Commandments and the New Commandment Jesus said covered all the law.

1: Love your God with your whole heart and your whole soul
2:Love your Neighbor.

The New Commandment: Have love among yourselves.

This was important to recognize that the TEN commandment continue on in these three commandments. Love is the essense of the Law. It's the entire motivation of a Christian. Remaining faithfull to them a christian can not go wrong. "Love never fails" 2 Corth 13:8

But Christians are no longer in a nation blessed by God and such will continue till the end of this system. Therefore the burdeon of the Law requires us to follow other nations rules but as long as we give Cesars things to Cesars but God's things to him we will be following God's will appropriately.

 

[mikenostic]

Yes, it is believe or welcome to the eternal torture chamber. Now that's freewill!

There is a gun to your head and a command to love the guy holding the gun or die.

Now it all seems right!

EXACTLY!! Even IF God and Jesus do exist, why would any rational person want to worship/follow a diety with that mentality. You can supplant any idea or thought or explanation with a scripture from the bible, but in the end, it's choose Jesus or burn in hell....beautiful, benevolent, merciful God? Pfft.

Doesn't that sound similar to the choices that most dictators and tyrants in the world give their population? Follow/choose them as their leader or face jail, torture, or even death?

 

[Saquist]

This isn't so much a bible contradiction as it is, 'somethings just don't add up';
It kinda makes me wonder why God needed to have Jesus die on the cross for our sins to begin with. It seems that an omnipotent god can do whatever the hell he wants to, including 'erasing' sins by way of omnipotence alone. Jesus' crucifiction seems like an elaborate, disguised cover up for God's fuck up.

God did not have to cast Adam and Eve out of the garden of Eden. God did not have to allow Satan (the serpent) in the garden of Eden to tempt Eve to begin with. God, being the omnipotent deity he is, could have killed the serpent and Eve would have never eaten the apple. Also, the omnipotent, clairvoyant God would have seen that the serpent was going to tempt Eve and could have been in the spot waiting to ambush the serpent before it or Eve even got to the apple tree.

.

Adam and Eve lost perfection for mankind. Perfect for them meant they would never die or grow old, suffer sickness.

They had no children.
God requires an equal scale of justice and maintains that equality in observing justice.

Thus...a perfect man lost perfect life for us all a perfect was required to return it to mankind. Since there were no perfect men on the Earth...rather than send an angel to provided this sacrifice he gave a true sacrifice of himself and sent his first born son to correct the imbalance in justice.

As a result Jesus becomes like Adam...mankinds father...buying us back from death and sin with his own life. He returned to heaven offering his Father and God the results of that sacrifice, which were his odedience,and a balance of justise.

But the scales remain unbalanced because wickedness remains on the Earth. Jesus sacrifice requires us to take part in that body and blood he gave which is why a very honorable time has just past...the annual comemorating of his death on a torture stake in behalf of us all....to which he said "keep doing this in memorial of me." Which was on April 2. 2007/ Nisan 14 on the Lunar calendar. The only event as christians we're required to observe.

 

[Sock puppet path]

Yeah 2 perfect humans without the ability to judge right from wrong lost perfection for all humanity for all time.....yeah gods cool Thier perfection was a barren, sickness free, partnership for all time..... I would think after the first hundred years or so they would have been begging god to give them a cold or an infected cut just to break up the monotony.

 

[Saquist]

You can not poses free will without the ability to make any decision. To creat man with only the ability to make good decision would be not only robotic but predestination.

Free will allows a person to make up his or her own mine.
Selfishness can lead to bad decisions and Loyalty in God can lead to good decisions.

 

[SnakeLord]

Adam and Eve lost perfection for mankind.

So why exactly are you, some human thousands of years after their claimed lives, held accountable for their errors? Judge on your own merits and whatnot which cannot work when you're born a sinner all because of two people thousands of years ago. You're a failure before you're even born and even considered doing anything to annoy this being.

rather than send an angel to provided this sacrifice he gave a true sacrifice of himself and sent his first born son to correct the imbalance in justice.

But, under the premise that jesus is god, he didn't actually sacrifice anything. Nothing was lost.. what, he pretended to be dead for a couple of days. Why bother?

the annual comemorating of his death on a torture stake in behalf of us all

But.. being god he couldn't have died. Are you claiming that for 3 days god was non-existant? If not, there's no death to be remembering.

 

[mikenostic]

Adam and Eve lost perfection for mankind. Perfect for them meant they would never die or grow old, suffer sickness.
They had no children.
God requires an equal scale of justice and maintains that equality in observing justice.

Then that doesn't reflect the benevolent, merciful god the bible portrays.
Shouldn't it say, benevolent and merciful...until you fuck up, then He'll send your ass to hell, if you don't repent and accept Jesus Christ as your savior?
I'm not totally against mentalities like that. I understand them, but when statements like "God requires an equal scale of justice and maintains that equality in observing justice" are sugarcoated to sound like, 'God is all merciful, benevolent and forgiving' without any, 'except....' to further clarify it, then yes, I have a problem with that.

Thus...a perfect man lost perfect life for us all a perfect was required to return it to mankind. Since there were no perfect men on the Earth...rather than send an angel to provided this sacrifice he gave a true sacrifice of himself and sent his first born son to correct the imbalance in justice.

Or I could turn right around and say that a benevolent, merciful, forgiving God didn't give Adam and Eve a second chance to redeem their 'screw-up' (which God staged to test* them anyway) and remain perfect. I always figured ominipotent deities had the power to do stuff like that.**

But the scales remain unbalanced because wickedness remains on the Earth. Jesus sacrifice requires us to take part in that body and blood he gave which is why a very honorable time has just past...the annual comemorating of his death on a torture stake in behalf of us all....to which he said "keep doing this in memorial of me." Which was on April 2. 2007/ Nisan 14 on the Lunar calendar. The only event as christians we're required to observe.

Why does wickedness remain on Earth? Is man himself wicked? If so, then Satan doesn't need to be here because we can be wicked and cause enough problems ourselves. If that's the case, then God should admit his mistake, cut his losses and destroy the earth, because we are all obviously not good enough for him and need to go to hell. If wickedness remains on Earth because God allows Satan to remain here to 'tempt' us, then wickedness remains on Earth because GOD allows it to. Don't you get it? Why is it that Christians (at least EVERY SINGE ONE I've talked to) absolutely refuse to see it like that?????


*I find it very unsettling to know that God has left Satan here on earth to tempt us. If that's the case, then ulitmately, shouldn't God be held accountable and responsible for all the atrocities in the world?

**I've said it before and I'll say it again:
-if God is willing to stop evil, but not able, then he is not omnipotent
-if God is able to stop evil, but unwilling, then he is not benevolent (he's not part of the solution, he's part of the problem)

 

[Saquist]

Yes, it is believe or welcome to the eternal torture chamber. Now that's freewill!

There is a gun to your head and a command to love the guy holding the gun or die.

Now it all seems right!

There are consequences to every decision: The bible doesn't shy away or patronize us. It doesn't tell us everything will be okay even when we're making bad decisions.

For example: Unprotected sex has consequence. Your children will choose to heed your warnings or not. So much better if they do. But if they do not the consequences still remain. They made the choice.

Every bad choice is a loaded gun. It's a revolver with one or two bullets loaded (what do you call this?) When we make the right choice you're putting the gun down. You're walking away....will you blame God for the gravity that kills you when you decided to jump off a cliff or the impact from flying head first into the tree?

He made his laws of gravity to be observed his Law's of behavior and worship should be equally followed.

The consequences have always been there. It is us that have made the descion to put ourselves in the face of danger.

 

[mikenostic]

You can not poses free will without the ability to make any decision. To creat man with only the ability to make good decision would be not only robotic but predestination.

Free will allows a person to make up his or her own mine.
Selfishness can lead to bad decisions and Loyalty in God can lead to good decisions.

I hope this doesn't turn into the disagreement I had with the other guy but here goes;
I'll say the same thing, it's not true free will. It's free will with conditions.
"I'll use my 'free will' to kill myself, then make the decision to resurrect myself. "
"When I grow old, I'll use my 'free will' to make myself young again. "

With that said, I agree with your statement in the context you mean it in but like I said in previous posts, mentioning free will by itself is like mentioning 'ask and ye shall receive' by itself; because it that statement was true by itself, we'd all (at least the straight guys would) already have beachside mansions with bikini-clad women running around all over the place!

 

[nova900]

When inventing a doctrine designed to appeal to the largest number of people (arguments from popularity are a common human fallacy after all), forgiving the sins of the believer and promising eternal life in exchange for belief in the doctrine are good strategies. Con artists have always been good at promising unrealistic rewards for credulous trust.

As I have always suspected the "forgiving of the sins thru Jesus" does appear to be a strong cult control factor.It is a concept that makes absolutely no sense ( to most of us anyways)unless as Skinwalker has mentioned it is the underlying basis for the reward/belief scenario.
The resurection I can understand, as with other resurection mythical stories like the Egyptians' "Ausarian Resurection", it was supposed to demonstrate casting off the physical/material life to embrace the spiritual one as well as rebirth and eternal life.

 

[spidergoat]

What about non-believers? Did he die for my sins, too? Or just yours?

If the new testament usurped the old, is Genesis still valid?

Isn't it a little bit of a contradiction that there are two stories of Genesis in the Bible?

 

[Saquist]

I hope this doesn't turn into the disagreement I had with the other guy but here goes;
I'll say the same thing, it's not true free will. It's free will with conditions.
"I'll use my 'free will' to kill myself, then make the decision to resurrect myself. "
"When I grow old, I'll use my 'free will' to make myself young again. "

With that said, I agree with your statement in the context you mean it in but like I said in previous posts, mentioning free will by itself is like mentioning 'ask and ye shall receive' by itself; because it that statement was true by itself, we'd all (at least the straight guys would) already have beachside mansions with bikini-clad women running around all over the place!

There's no such thing as true free will as you want it. Every choice has consequences or strings attached. Even God doesn't have what you desire of the word free will. He is contrained by qualities of justice and love. He can't even lie.

we can....what you're looking for..."free will" with out consequences doesn't exist. We live in world of laws and rules...natural and behaviorial.

 

[mikenostic]

There's no such thing as true free will as you want it. Every choice has consequences or strings attached. Even God doesn't have what you desire of the word free will. He is contrained by qualities of justice and love. He can't even lie.

we can....what you're looking for..."free will" with out consequences doesn't exist. We live in world of laws and rules...natural and behaviorial.

I know this and fully understand it, but they way that free will is always portrayed in the bible and from Christians is that it's unconditional. "Free will" IS preached as if there are no conditions, and we all know that's not true.
I wasn't looking for anything. I just wanted to iterate that free will isn't unconditional. I think we're on the same page there.