best arguments against religion (no theists)

Why would someone who trusts in God request God to confuse the wicked, to kill them and such?



Because, according to the Psalms, the righteous inherit the earth

Psalm 37 verse 29 which says, "The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever," (as translated in the King James Version of the Bible)

That particular verse is cross referenced in the Qur'an btw, although not all Islamic scholars are convinced that Al Zabur refers to the Psalms

Before this We wrote in the Psalms, after the Message (given to Moses): My servants the righteous, shall inherit the earth."
—Qur'an, sura 21 (Al-Anbiya), ayah 105
 
A hypothetical invisible, illogical supernatural creature living in a hypothetical invisible, illogical supernatural universe, who at random intervals, using his hypothetical unlimited illogical supernatural powers, perturbs the operation of the natural universe, so that its behavior cannot be predicted by theories derived logically from empirical evidence of its past and present behavior, thereby making a mockery of science and returning humanity to the Stone Age.

Please copy-paste the passages from scriptures that define God as you define God above.


Religion is, if nothing else, a group phenomenon. Its fables, its rituals, its chants, all operate at the group level and in fact almost all religions demand frequent group meetings. So although some individuals may claim to define their own religion, from a sociological standpoint religion is what the group says it is, which in turn is usually what their leaders say it is.

You're committing the common error of taking too narrow a snapshot. If you expand your view you'll see that every few generations, entire religious communities rise up in orgies of unspeakable violence. The death and destruction perpetrated by these religious people during those orgies, and even worse the damage done to civilization itself, far outweighs the good things they do during the lulls. Gang violence, crimes of passion and drunk driving are statistical footnotes compared to:
  • The religious persecutions of entire ethnic groups after Christianity was made the state religion of Rome
  • The spread of Islam by the sword
  • The Crusades
  • The obliteration of two entire New World "heathen" civilizations (Christians kill other Christians but they don't burn their libraries and melt down their art objects)
  • The Inquisition
  • The euphemistically named "Reformation" which was really a hundred years of non-stop war between various Christian sects
  • The thousand years of antisemitism which virtually defined European Christendom
  • The Holocaust in which it culminated
  • The persecution of the Palestinians which is Israel's way of thanking the world for rescuing half of the Jews from the Holocaust
  • Or today's impending Nuclear Holy War among all three major branches of Abrahamism. (So far the Rastafarians have managed to be models of peace and charity, but check back in on them in five hundred years. ;))
Considering that religion dominates most human cultures, and considering that belief in the supernatural is an archetype (an instinct we are born with, programmed into our neurons by evolution, either the result of a random mutation passing through a genetic bottleneck or a survival trait from an era whose dangers we can't imagine), it requires tremendous conscious effort for most people to become atheists. (I am a rare exception, raised by atheist parents who never talked about religion.) For an "irrational, compulsive, unscientific" person to make the tremendous intellectual and emotional effort to override his instinct and to reject years of parental and cultural conditioning, in order to become a pariah who has to hide his beliefs from half the people in his life, is probably a rare phenomenon, I would expect that a person who can do that is probably a sociopath since in the absence of tremendous intellectual effort it aligns with other sociopathic behavior.

Please look at these two posts:
http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=2862097&postcount=437
http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=2862114&postcount=440

and tell us which set of statements you agree with.
 
Because, according to the Psalms, the righteous inherit the earth

Psalm 37 verse 29 which says, "The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever," (as translated in the King James Version of the Bible)

That particular verse is cross referenced in the Qur'an btw, although not all Islamic scholars are convinced that Al Zabur refers to the Psalms

Before this We wrote in the Psalms, after the Message (given to Moses): My servants the righteous, shall inherit the earth."
—Qur'an, sura 21 (Al-Anbiya), ayah 105

This does not address my question, which was:

Why would someone who trusts in God request God to confuse the wicked, to kill them and such?
 
This does not address my question, which was:

Why would someone who trusts in God request God to confuse the wicked, to kill them and such?
Why would someone who trusts in god pray for anything? Doesn't god already know what they need? Isn't he already taking care of it?
 
I would suggest that it is not religon that is the problem, but our distorted interpretation
of it. Theisism wasly never intended to be taken as fact but as a metaphor which we are suppossed to mature out of. It is a provisional teaching. If you still believe in a personel God when in your 30s then you are somewhat spiritually imature, you may as well still believe in Santa claus. Regretable some people are not ready to mature which is only a problem when they interfere with those of us who have.
 
I would suggest that it is not religon that is the problem, but our distorted interpretation
of it. Theisism wasly never intended to be taken as fact but as a metaphor which we are suppossed to mature out of. It is a provisional teaching. If you still believe in a personel God when in your 30s then you are somewhat spiritually imature, you may as well still believe in Santa claus. Regretable some people are not ready to mature which is only a problem when they interfere with those of us who have.
On the contrary, persons who have philosophical systems that prohibit a personal god are somewhat immature - Using one's own personality (and all its conditioned shortcomings) as a blueprint to estimate the issues that would arise from god having a personality is just like a 5 year old judging the president based on their requirement for free ice cream.
 
so, I would like people to post their best logical arguments against religion here.
I suppose one very good argument against religions is that they are not really like what their founders did. To participate in the religion, generally, is to do things the founders did not do, in ways they did not do them, in environs they did not use, in relations that are not the same and so on. Some things are taken from, say, the actions of Jesus and extended into taking Mass, for example. But there was no confession, I don't think, no church, no preacher/priest, no last rites.
 
@Jan --

1. I don't have to demonstrate anything to LG as I made no claim, I merely questioned his claim and demanded that it be demonstrated, this "question" is nothing but LG attempting to shift the burden of proof once again. It is clear from LG's behavior that there is no interest in discussion there. LG is here to troll and obfuscate, much like yourself.

2. No, I don't accept those six points because I don't accept that the premise is valid. Wynn's premise is that in order to conclude that the violence is indeed caused by religion we must believe those six things, this is something not in evidence so his post is begging the question.

That should take care of that. Now, are you ever going to give any proper responses to any questions you're asked? Or should I just assume that you're going to be pulling more non-sequiturs, straw men, and red herrings out of your ass?
 
@Jan --

1. I don't have to demonstrate anything to LG as I made no claim, I merely questioned his claim and demanded that it be demonstrated, this "question" is nothing but LG attempting to shift the burden of proof once again. It is clear from LG's behavior that there is no interest in discussion there. LG is here to troll and obfuscate, much like yourself.

2. No, I don't accept those six points because I don't accept that the premise is valid. Wynn's premise is that in order to conclude that the violence is indeed caused by religion we must believe those six things, this is something not in evidence so his post is begging the question.

That should take care of that. Now, are you ever going to give any proper responses to any questions you're asked? Or should I just assume that you're going to be pulling more non-sequiturs, straw men, and red herrings out of your ass?
If you want to back down from your previous statements about the holocaust and hindu/buddhist conflict in sri lanka being prime examples of religious conflict I am willing to ride with that since they were pretty stupid off-the-cuff remarks.
 
2. No, I don't accept those six points because I don't accept that the premise is valid. Wynn's premise is that in order to conclude that the violence is indeed caused by religion we must believe those six things, this is something not in evidence so his post is begging the question.

Please explain why that which you consider to be religiously motivated violence, indeed is religiously motivated violence,
and why the two sets of six points I have mentioned earlier, do not apply.


What is your premise that violence can be religiously motivated?
 
2. No, I don't accept those six points because I don't accept that the premise is valid. Wynn's premise is that in order to conclude that the violence is indeed caused by religion we must believe those six things, this is something not in evidence so his post is begging the question.

Let's go through them:


1. Do you believe that the violence is perpetrated by people who claim to be religious?

2. Do you believe that the claims of the perpetrators are to be taken at face value and to be held as a standard of religion?

3. Do you believe that religion is what any person who claims to be religious says religion is?

4. Some religious scriptures instruct the persecution of non-believers. Do you believe that the people who claim to be the heirs of said scriptures, are indeed divinely ordained heirs of said scriptures, and that whatever these people do, is sanctioned by the scriptures and God?

5. Do you believe that a person who claims to be religious, has no political or economical interests?

6. Do you believe that people make no mistakes?
 
Back
Top