That's quite interesting. I'm trying to work out exactly what makes up the needs found in all people that religion seems to appeal to. Maybe there is a more human benefit of these "get saved" ceremonies than I thought.
Believer's rhetoric: coating love with slime
- Thread starter SkippingStones
- Start date
That's quite interesting. I'm trying to work out exactly what makes up the needs found in all people that religion seems to appeal to. Maybe there is a more human benefit of these "get saved" ceremonies than I thought.
Words do not do justice to what I am trying to describe, or what God requires, if indeed God requires anything. Although the interaction between Peter and Jesus is an interesting intellectual study, I don't see how you are telling me anything with it.
Now see here! Doesn't this sentence contradict exactly what you are accusing me of, being as "everyone else says" is in quotes.
Anyway, I wasn't trying to hide behind anything. I do think that Christians do hide behind Bible quotations an awful lot.
SkippingStones said:
gods not about love,
God is about fear!
the theists believe that this allmighty dude created everything and controls all,so by worshiping him he will return the favor give them whatever they wish for in prayer and in the end send them to heaven,
never mind that god as defined by xian bible cannot logicaly exist
allmighty,all good,etc
Epicurus
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
heres god/religion from atheist pov
www.jhuger.com/kisshank.mv
SkippingStones said:
Do a search for 'agape love', and find a definition/article on it.
Now see here! Doesn't this sentence contradict exactly what you are accusing me of, being as "everyone else says" is in quotes.
Anyway, I wasn't trying to hide behind anything. I do think that Christians do hide behind Bible quotations an awful lot.[/QUOTE]
How are Bible quotations what "everyone else says"??? There were single writers to the books of the Bible.
SkippingStones said:
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
The gut feeling i have is that you are reacting to a perception deep down that many things you see are plastic, hollow, simplistic or just fake and disingenuous. I was once a member of a "church" and i had these perceptions too. One thing you have said that i find endearing is that you love many of the things Jesus said/ His message. I suppose we all come to a point where we are convicted that the way people are dealing with the Message of God around us is not the proper Way. Its then that we are at the cross roads in out lives. There are 3 ways we can go.
1) We can swallow out doubts and just follow the crowd be half hearted don't rock the boat, and be a luke warm Christian.
2) We can through all our faith away renounce Jesus and give up on God.
3) We can become independent of the cultural worldly churches and seek out Gods Will and personally accept the Word Of Jesus and become real in our faith with our conscience being at peace with God.
I came to this cross roads when i was 17 I hope you take the right path.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Skipping Stones,
Great thoughts.
This is my experience exactly.
I am aware that this explanation may seem farfetched, but I think it has some merit:
I think that (some) Christians tell other people that they love them in order to defend themselves, in many ways.
One way is that by (very soon in the relationship) telling the other person you love them, they protect themselves from having strong emotions or developing strong emotions for this person. One should love God above everyone else, it is commanded.
So they use the highest word, love, in order to stop their emotions from developing or growing stronger (because they shouldn't grow stronger!); while their actual emotions remain those of a lukewarm affection.
You can see this yourself: How many Christians do you know that have a wide range of emotions? Most of the Christians I know are always in some narrow spectrum.
Another way of using love as defense is this: Some people think well about other people because they are afraid that these other people may harm them. So they are nice to them, tell them how much they love them -- as they count on the natural predisposition that one doesn't go at those who are nice to one.
However, Christians too, are just human, so they show their human face when they do go against the same people they say they love. It is "in the name of God", they say. If anything, many Christians are extremely uncapable of "turning the other cheek".
Great thoughts.
This is my experience exactly.
I am aware that this explanation may seem farfetched, but I think it has some merit:
I think that (some) Christians tell other people that they love them in order to defend themselves, in many ways.
One way is that by (very soon in the relationship) telling the other person you love them, they protect themselves from having strong emotions or developing strong emotions for this person. One should love God above everyone else, it is commanded.
So they use the highest word, love, in order to stop their emotions from developing or growing stronger (because they shouldn't grow stronger!); while their actual emotions remain those of a lukewarm affection.
You can see this yourself: How many Christians do you know that have a wide range of emotions? Most of the Christians I know are always in some narrow spectrum.
Another way of using love as defense is this: Some people think well about other people because they are afraid that these other people may harm them. So they are nice to them, tell them how much they love them -- as they count on the natural predisposition that one doesn't go at those who are nice to one.
However, Christians too, are just human, so they show their human face when they do go against the same people they say they love. It is "in the name of God", they say. If anything, many Christians are extremely uncapable of "turning the other cheek".
yes southstar.
a facard of love
all religions are them same, "we love ""we love " liers all of them (killers).
a facard of love
all religions are them same, "we love ""we love " liers all of them (killers).
I agree that I perceive many religious aspects as hollow and simplistic. But, I wonder, what made these people behave this way. What is it all based on? What human characteristics makes religion so appealing to people?
Like I said, a lot of Jesus teachings make sense to me. They promote actions and thoughts that are helpful, but only if understood. As such, they are human, revolving around human characteristics. But, they are not the only human characteristics out there.
Thanks for your support Rosa
Peer pressure influences every communal aspect of our lives. Trained to "be nice" to everyone, I find that it is very easy to think myself above people who show darker emotion, or even emotion at all. I've never really thought about niceties as a defense mechanism before. There must be more to it though. Maybe it's the human connection.
Peer pressure influences every communal aspect of our lives. Trained to "be nice" to everyone, I find that it is very easy to think myself above people who show darker emotion, or even emotion at all. I've never really thought about niceties as a defense mechanism before. There must be more to it though. Maybe it's the human connection.
SkippingStones,
Some people, esp. those born and raised in strictly religious families simply don't know any other way to be.
Another important factor is insecurity: We all feel insecure in our life, esp. in the young age. A certain insecurity seems to be an inavoidable and natural companion of a developing personality.
The way we approach this insecurity is what makes the great difference between people. Some people choose religion, and follow those writings by the word. Some people subscribe to the philosophy of a certain philosopher or to a certain (political) ideology. Some other people use many diferent sources for their knowledge.
I agree. I love the verses in James saying that faith without works is worth nothing.
What I cannot accept though is this fallacious thinking some Mormons were trying to impose on me; namely that "if one part of a message/scripture is true, the whole must be true too".
Another example: As that certain politician came to the rule in Europe in the first half of the 20th century, he issued new laws that prohibited maltreatment of animals. I certainly think this was a good thing. He also boosted the economy of his country. But should I therefore accept everything this man did?!
This man was Adolf Hitler ...
This is the danger of having a pre-set scripture: no new addings are possible, or allowed.
Just look at the word: TRAINED. Not nice from a natural kind inclination, but TRAINED. As if you were a robot.
Well, this is how they come across to a non-Christian observer.
Exactly, a lot is about the human connection that is often painfully missing when Christians are dealing with non-Christians. I feel they treat me as if I am their problem to solve. They don't treat me as an equal.
Another reason for this cold and insensitive treatment one often gets from Christians is most likely due to the fact that they have everything named, they have words and definitions for everything. If it's not in their book, then it doesn't exist. One gets pigeonholed, and one's sentiments and thoughts get pigeonholed -- and what is more, this pigeonholing happens without much previous inquiry. As if the Christian already knows what you are about, and you are just a mere dumb object in this. Christian love tends to be so impersonal, so abstract.
I get the feeling that they are unable to listen -- maybe because of all those words they got implanted into their minds, or because of all those words they run to for shelter, to cover up their social and emotional inability.
Of course not all the Christians are like that; but most of those that I have met and been with made me come to the above conclusions.
Some people, esp. those born and raised in strictly religious families simply don't know any other way to be.
Another important factor is insecurity: We all feel insecure in our life, esp. in the young age. A certain insecurity seems to be an inavoidable and natural companion of a developing personality.
The way we approach this insecurity is what makes the great difference between people. Some people choose religion, and follow those writings by the word. Some people subscribe to the philosophy of a certain philosopher or to a certain (political) ideology. Some other people use many diferent sources for their knowledge.
I agree. I love the verses in James saying that faith without works is worth nothing.
What I cannot accept though is this fallacious thinking some Mormons were trying to impose on me; namely that "if one part of a message/scripture is true, the whole must be true too".
Another example: As that certain politician came to the rule in Europe in the first half of the 20th century, he issued new laws that prohibited maltreatment of animals. I certainly think this was a good thing. He also boosted the economy of his country. But should I therefore accept everything this man did?!
This man was Adolf Hitler ...
This is the danger of having a pre-set scripture: no new addings are possible, or allowed.
Just look at the word: TRAINED. Not nice from a natural kind inclination, but TRAINED. As if you were a robot.
Well, this is how they come across to a non-Christian observer.
Exactly, a lot is about the human connection that is often painfully missing when Christians are dealing with non-Christians. I feel they treat me as if I am their problem to solve. They don't treat me as an equal.
Another reason for this cold and insensitive treatment one often gets from Christians is most likely due to the fact that they have everything named, they have words and definitions for everything. If it's not in their book, then it doesn't exist. One gets pigeonholed, and one's sentiments and thoughts get pigeonholed -- and what is more, this pigeonholing happens without much previous inquiry. As if the Christian already knows what you are about, and you are just a mere dumb object in this. Christian love tends to be so impersonal, so abstract.
I get the feeling that they are unable to listen -- maybe because of all those words they got implanted into their minds, or because of all those words they run to for shelter, to cover up their social and emotional inability.
Of course not all the Christians are like that; but most of those that I have met and been with made me come to the above conclusions.
Simple answer pride. People have an image of what they want religion to be, what they think it should be and they go about adding all of that to the Word and end up smothering the essential message of Jesus with theology traditions and ceremony. When it comes down to basics, the Word OF Jesus does not need ceremony, grand mosques/cathedrals, fancy dress, fancy head wear, bells and whistles but that’s what often impresses the natives. Many people want to be a part of something grand/impressive they need to see something physical. In days past they had their grand statues and idols. Today they have their grand architecture and mass prayer and ceremony. But all that just allows people to ignore the true message of God.
Proverbs 14:12
There is a way that seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death.
What do you mean when you say "As such, they are human, revolving around human characteristics. But, they are not the only human characteristics out there." ? could you expand on that a little?
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
RosaMagika said:
Me? Jest? The incomprehensibility!
I am asking you since you have taken an interest in writing about me directly and in this case, indirectly.
I do assure you, I in no means want to deter you, since whatever wrong I do must be made right.
SouthStar,
In this case,
I don't have anything to answer to this question
right now.
But when I wrote my replies to Skipping Stones -- I did not have you in my mind, if this is what you think. I had been in close contact with Mormons for about two years and I had several Christians in my class at highschool, hence my observations.
In this case,
I don't have anything to answer to this question
right now.
But when I wrote my replies to Skipping Stones -- I did not have you in my mind, if this is what you think. I had been in close contact with Mormons for about two years and I had several Christians in my class at highschool, hence my observations.
what frigging planet, are you on.§outh§tar said:
what a stupid statement.
you better pinch yourself, and maybe you'll wake up"WOW".
your something else .